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Smart contracts allow for guaranteed outcomes. Some commentary added by a random law firm does not mean that guaranteed outcomes == no need for litigation and courts.

Just think of non-smart contract parallels. If a bank had an ATM, the premise is that this ATM will execute a series of commands and allow you to withdraw/deposit/transfer funds. If a nefarious back actor found a series of user input that allowed them to withdraw millions of extra dollars, do you believe that the ATM provider will have no legal recourse? What about electronic slot machines?




The difference is that the ATM provider did not explicitly promise that the “code is law” which directly implies that they want to and aggressively argue that they are waiving their legal recourse as long as they were valid user inputs.

In contrast, basically nobody outside of the blockchain space would waive their legal recourse in such a manner and thus would have legal recourse if the intent of their system was bypassed.

To go on to then argue that a legal system should not allow one to waive those rights as it would be idiotic to do so is a perfectly valid legal/moral/justice position, but also directly contradicts basically the entire purported value proposition of everything in the blockchain space whose primary “positive” differentiating factor is that “code is law” and they have waived those rights. To not allow them to do so basically invalidates their entire purpose.

Essentially, either let people bind themselves to “code is law” and suffer the consequence of their choice, or ban it at which point you lose decentralized trust and censorship-resistance making them no different than traditional implementations except that they are slower with higher operational costs.


Where and when did the defi protocol in question explicitly state "code is law"? No one is waiving legal recourse when they're using Web3. I'm not a lawyer but I'd be very surprised if one could even "waive legal recourse" just because it's blockchain all the way down vs mySQL.

I believe you're making this claim because _some_ crypto proponents believe "code is law" and because your personal logical framing is that web3 has no value add outside of being able to operate without legal recourse thus it must operate without legal recourse.

First, even if web3 had no useful value add, it doesn't mean it ought not exist. I can create a SaaS company that does exactly the same thing another company does just with my own logo and API documentation. Does non-uniqueness invalidate my company's existence? What if I forked an open source SQL database and slapped my name on the repo? Have you heard about something called substitute goods? I don't see why Pepsi can't exist in a world where only Coke is the norm.

Second, web3/blockchain/defi does have benefits outside of traditional web2/finance. The ability to not require depositing your funds into an account to transact on a protocol, for instance, is a clear value add. The ability to buy/sell NFTs without a middleman (if they choose to eschew a middleman) is a novel and potentially valuable value add as well. There are countless other applications of web3 that I won't delve into but these concepts can and should operate within bounds of legal recourse.


> No one is waiving legal recourse when they're using Web3.

I've seen quite a few people do this. May not everyone, but a lot. The "commentary added by a random law firm" is the general sentiment I understood when people were hyped up on smart contracts. There's an industry of smart contract programmers who write code under the assumption that there may be no recourse (to the legal system) if they introduced bugs.

If your attitude represents the sentiment of "web3" these days, it is really a very hilarious backtrack on the previous (hyperbole) claims...


A true non-smart parallel is this. You and I agree on a sporting event between humans. Because I want to construct a fantasy, let's just say it's a three-point basketball contest between adolescents (under 13).

The observer will pay $100 dollars per blocked shot, and earn $1 per 3 point play made. All the games are played 1v1. To the untrained basketball player participants, this may seem to be a fair game. After all, it's quite rare in a real basketball game to see a 3 point shot blocked. So they sign the contract, fully agreeing to pay $100 per blocked shot and earn $1 per made 3 pointer.

To game this as a participant, I go to the ends of the earth ( I hear Sudan and the Netherlands are both nice this time of year ), and find a 6'8 ,215 lb boy and recruit him to play for me. He proceeds to block every single shot in every contest, winning hundreds of thousands of dollars and bankrupting the organizers. Just to further weight this, I also hire an opposing player who is only 4'3 to shoot as many 3 points as possible as quickly as possible.

Now, they signed the contract and agreed to it. They didn't have a clause for height, or any sort of caps, and now they have unlimited downside. How would the legal system handle this? Do you think they would release the participants liability? Perhaps, but not likely if they didn't sign the contract under duress. They fully agreed and had consideration ( the $1 per 3 point made ).

It's a contrived example, but it's useful to show that technicalities can be exploited in real world contracts just the same as smart contracts.


> Some commentary added by a random law firm does not mean that guaranteed outcomes == no need for litigation and courts.

But it would appear that you expect us to believe that some commentary added by a random hacker news poster means the opposite?


I'm not extrapolating on the premise adding my own commentary. The parent commenter asserts an axiom (that we all purported agree with) and then links an observation to said axiom. I'm merely stating that the observation is not part of said axiom.


In a world where you're falling back to the legal system, why do I care if your buggy ATM is powered by a "smart contract" or by "regular" code? Why even do you care?

(There have been exploits in both ATMs and smart contracts, after all.)


I primarily care because I think there's money to be made.

But I also think the shift directionally makes sense. Traditional finance (really most transactions for that matter) have moved towards fewer middlemen dependent, more democratized forms of transactions (e.g. wealthy folks can call their traders to buy/sells stock -> open to middle class -> no need to call traders -> no fee no minimum online trading). To me, not requiring institutions to maintain custody of my funds is a value add.

But most importantly, it could just be something different (that fails or doesn't fail, who knows). I don't think the web3 space NEEDS to eschew legal recourse because 1) that's not the only supposedly value add and 2) because it doesn't NEED to provide any value add for that matter. Perhaps web3 can just be the Pepsi the web2's Coca Cola. Only time will tell.


>I primarily care because I think there's money to be made.

Crypto /thread


I think there's a difference between betting on the future of an ecosystem and pumping the latest shiba inu X coin trading on Binance but you do you.


Stock market /thread




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