Not to mention that plumber probably doesn't have health coverage. The people who love to talk about what a fine profession that would be (for other people's kids, of course, never their own kids) are the same people who fight tooth and nail against any kind of health care policy that might make a non-white collar career more viable.
Plumbers and pipefitters have a union that has plenty of power in current market. No health insurance and they won't work. Plumbing pays more than 80k in major cities. Plumbing contractors have to carry workers comp insurance.
Having grown up in a rural area, I assure you that any unions or health coverage is a strictly urban phenomenon. And $80k isn't all that great of a top-end, for people living in major cities with their cost of living.
I did some quick lookups from BLS and other salary sources for my (mid sized southern US MSA) sometime back and yeah the median and mean wages for a lot of skilled labor and trade positions are pretty damn close to what a lot of clerical type office jobs were paying. I.E. not great, probably livable. I’ll see if I can go back through and find my comment.
In my area United Association Plumbers get $42.77/hour and have great benefits including healthcare/pension. I agree though we need truly universal healthcare like medicare for all. The system we have now is hopelessly broken.
Doesn't seem like the rest of the world's universal healthcare did any better than ours?
You have farfetched dreams that government run anything would somehow be not shit. You'd hardly get any coverage and I doubt the deductible would be anywhere sufficient.
You don't get completely fucked if you lose your job and then get sick/injured? Is that not better? I pay literally $0 to go to the doctors or emergency room.
If you lose your job then you qualify for Medicaid and get free doctors visits and emergency care. The people who get fucked the worst by our system are the working poor. The people who make just over the limit for Medicaid and have crappy employer sponsored plans.
In the US you pay more IN TAX per person than other countries pay for their entirely otherwise free healthcare. Yet you have insurance, and have to pay premiums ON TOP of that!
Everyone knows that "free" healthcare means that it's still being paid for via taxes, so points like this aren't exactly insightful. The OP's point was that their care cost them nothing to utilize or receive, not that there aren't costs in the system at all. Nobody actually believes that doctors are working for free, that assumption would be a strawman.
If you don't pay the bill, it doesn't cost you anything either.
I'm not sure everyone knows there's a no free healthcare, we may move in different cicles.
Having lived with socialized healthcare and still paying private insurance in order to access expedient, competent, comfortable care is especially frustrating.
> If you don't pay the bill, it doesn't cost you anything either.
In the US, you won't get the chance to have a bill, because you will be denied care if you're unable to pay for the care or are uninsured. The one exception to this is that emergency rooms are obligated to stabilize patients in crisis, but that type of care is limited. For example, they'll patch you up if you get stabbed and then send you a bill for it, but nobody is getting treatment for non-acute emergencies, like chronic conditions, or the insulin they need to survive diabetes, or life-saving chemo or radiation therapy for cancer.
Your creditors might feel differently about bills not costing you anything when they take you to court to collect on your debt. Those bills might cost you your savings, income and/or assets.
I have family members on Medicaid and help them with their care. Medicaid covers 100% of everything, from doctors visits to specialists, ER care, surgery, dental, vision, medications, etc at no cost to the beneficiary. By law, Medicaid has to pay for everything, so patients don't get pushed around by providers or insurers about billing or additional costs. The headache surrounding billing and paying for care just doesn't exist. Policyholders can confidently see doctors and buy prescriptions they need without worrying about being sent mystery bills several months down the line, or being unable to fill medication, including brand name medication.
On the private insurer side, if you're prescribed an on-patent medication that has no generics, every insurer I've had has fought me every step of the way for coverage, and some plans just don't cover brand name medication at all. Even when you work with your doctor and insurer to get coverage for specific medications, insurers will decide 4 months later that they don't want to cover it anymore and you have to jump through those hoops all over again.
My "favorite" experience was having to cycle through several medications that I had been prescribed in the past that weren't effective in order to make my insurer happy so that they'd cover the medication that does work. Apparently the private insurer knows how to treat patients better than doctors do. Then I moved and had to switch insurers, and the insurer wanted me to go through the process of taking drugs that don't work all over again. I gave up and just pay for the actually-efficacious prescription out of pocket, and none of those costs go towards my deductible. I now pay $18 per pill for something that costs $34 total for a 30-day supply, which is about a dollar per pill, in other first world countries.
If it was possible, I'd drop my own coverage instantly for Medicaid. Doing so would make my life immeasurably better.
> Doesn't seem like the rest of the world's universal healthcare did any better than ours?
On every metric, other countries' healthcare systems outperform the healthcare system in the US, resulting in higher quality care and patient outcomes, all for much less than the US spends[1].
> If it was possible, I'd drop my own coverage instantly for Medicaid. Doing so would make my life immeasurably better.
I also care for a family member on Medicaid and, while it’s very far from perfect, I agree that in many every-day scenarios it’s remarkably superior to my employer-provided coverage.
Most of the downsides I’ve experienced are issues with getting specialist appointments in a timely fashion and providers creating unexpected reimbursement loopholes - which are thankfully rare, but remarkably abusive when they have occurred.
Eg: Medicaid will get you booked with an allergy clinic four months out and during the appointment they tell you “Oh by the way, Medicaid only covers ~5 basic allergen tests; if you want the standard regional allergen test that’s $150 up front and if you want the full spectrum test that’ll be $300.”
Meanwhile, half a year prior, I went to the same clinic, got my appointment booked for 2-3 weeks out, and wasn’t even asked about the test type - they hit me with the full spectrum and I just had to toss a minor copay on the way out the door.
I guess the overall moral of the story is that our healthcare system is broken and jammed up with perverse incentives at every rung of the ladder.
I lost my job due to illness and I am currently on Medi-Cal. There is no deductible. Pretty much everything non-cosmetic is covered 100% including dental. My previous health insurance from a Fortune 100 company was much worse with all sorts of byzantine rules. I think you have been seriously misinformed.
