I have no college degree, yet work in jobs surrounded by Ph.D.s. My expertise is valued just as a much as theirs is, and we don't throw titles or degrees around as status symbols. I've been mistakenly addressed as "Doctor ..." on several occasions, either by professional societies or by colleagues who didn't know I didn't have a degree.
I'm 41 and started programming when I was 10, doing assembly language by the time I was 15. I have played with digital and analog electronics since I was 5. I taught myself calculus and numerical analysis at 12. I was, and would still be, interested in computing, whether I got paid or not. If you have that level of passion and self-learning, you can succeed without a degree.
I dropped out of college after 2.5 years. I worked at a gas station for 5 years while continuing to do research and programming at home or during graveyard shift. I finally got a job at a computer company due to a friend. Once you get in the door, if you're good, you can make it.
I've had bad managers in the past who've kept my salary down because I didn't have a degree, and said so in the performance review (one actually used the word "glass ceiling"). I've had other managers turn around and pay twice as much and not care at all about the degree. Given my age and 15+ years of experience in a very specific field of computing, the degree issue doesn't come up much anymore like it did when I was in my 20's and 30's.
Some will not consider your application because you don't have a degree. Some (especially HR types) do it because they don't trust people without degrees. Others do it because they must put a degree requirement on the job due to obscure clauses in labor regulations, e.g., H1B visas, NSF or other grants, or, under some interpretations of US Labor Law, even the "professional" designation for salaried (overtime exempt) positions. Still others do it because they want to set the bar high for candidates, and even if you're more experienced than a Ph.D. fresh out of college, they cannot consider you because then they would have to consider everyone without a degree or face discrimination charges.
That happened to me once -- the hiring manager checked references and knew I was legit, but said that since the originally posted job description said a degree was required, they could not consider me because their HR department was strict on anti-discrimination laws. Another company was working out how to get around the degree requirement but I got a position at another company before they could get back to me.
Someone said "if you don't finish undergrad, you can't go to grad school". Actually that's misleading. You can get honorary Ph.D.'s, or get hired as research staff, if you've demonstrated enough contributions and have a professor who will be your advocate. Not saying it's easy though.
Given the growing backlash against college education (see College Conspiracy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE ), and the economic climate, employers seem more willing than before to consider non-degreed candidates who are perfect matches for the job. But they must be very good matches. A computer generalist who is just out of college or never finished college, and doesn't have any special skills related to the job, faces a much harder time now.
You know, it's stories like this that inspire me but are, at the same time, somewhat depressing. They make me think of all the things I WISH I had done. I've always considered myself to be capable of doing whatever I want to do, but I've also been pretty lazy. My mom never made me do my homework while I was growing up and it took me until my second year of university (this year) to realize that I really do have to work to get what I want. I like math and I frequently hear stories about people who leaned calculus when they were 11, 12, or 13 years old and I wish that I had even bothered to take some AP math courses while I was in high school. Now I am, quite literally, paying for my mistakes.
My drive was intrinsic, not extrensic. I could have cared less about my parents' and teachers' approval. I did it because of interest in the subject.
Full disclosure: At age 40, I was officially diagnosed with Asperger's. So my case may not be normal.
And by mentioning those "accomplishments", I am not intending to brag. To those like us, the predictability and order of math/CS way more than offsets any difficulty in learning it. And I had problems in English too. History too. Political science was easier, since it was framed in discrete terms (left/right), although personally I am an independent small-l libertarian.
It depends on a large degree of luck, to land where you do. Not everyone in my position will land the jobs I did, due to chance luck. But it is not totally due to luck -- developing connections and establishing a reputation is important.
I'm 41 and started programming when I was 10, doing assembly language by the time I was 15. I have played with digital and analog electronics since I was 5. I taught myself calculus and numerical analysis at 12. I was, and would still be, interested in computing, whether I got paid or not. If you have that level of passion and self-learning, you can succeed without a degree.
I dropped out of college after 2.5 years. I worked at a gas station for 5 years while continuing to do research and programming at home or during graveyard shift. I finally got a job at a computer company due to a friend. Once you get in the door, if you're good, you can make it.
I've had bad managers in the past who've kept my salary down because I didn't have a degree, and said so in the performance review (one actually used the word "glass ceiling"). I've had other managers turn around and pay twice as much and not care at all about the degree. Given my age and 15+ years of experience in a very specific field of computing, the degree issue doesn't come up much anymore like it did when I was in my 20's and 30's.
Some will not consider your application because you don't have a degree. Some (especially HR types) do it because they don't trust people without degrees. Others do it because they must put a degree requirement on the job due to obscure clauses in labor regulations, e.g., H1B visas, NSF or other grants, or, under some interpretations of US Labor Law, even the "professional" designation for salaried (overtime exempt) positions. Still others do it because they want to set the bar high for candidates, and even if you're more experienced than a Ph.D. fresh out of college, they cannot consider you because then they would have to consider everyone without a degree or face discrimination charges.
That happened to me once -- the hiring manager checked references and knew I was legit, but said that since the originally posted job description said a degree was required, they could not consider me because their HR department was strict on anti-discrimination laws. Another company was working out how to get around the degree requirement but I got a position at another company before they could get back to me.
Someone said "if you don't finish undergrad, you can't go to grad school". Actually that's misleading. You can get honorary Ph.D.'s, or get hired as research staff, if you've demonstrated enough contributions and have a professor who will be your advocate. Not saying it's easy though.
Given the growing backlash against college education (see College Conspiracy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpZtX32sKVE ), and the economic climate, employers seem more willing than before to consider non-degreed candidates who are perfect matches for the job. But they must be very good matches. A computer generalist who is just out of college or never finished college, and doesn't have any special skills related to the job, faces a much harder time now.