Sitting at a desk in a Western office, this is cool.
Thinking that this is practical life and death for real people is heart wrenching.
Thinking that I am within five miles of a tank (as are many Americans; I suspect that outside of the U.S. tanks are even more proliferate), this is somewhat scary.
Every time there’s a video of one of these things being put to use, it’s invariably followed by “fuck, yeah!”, high fives or other form of celebration. But they didn’t just destroy a tank, they also killed the crew, burning it alive. In fact some of the crew may still be alive and smoldering at that very moment... War is war, do what you have to, but celebrating a killing is just wrong.
I agree that the fate of a tank engineer being struck by an anti-tank missile is not great, but when comparing the scenarios of having a tank be disabled and its crew dismembered with the devastation that said tank will bring to civilians and civilian buildings, I'd much rather have the tank get disabled. The sad reality is that the tank operators will probably operate a tank to commit some atrocities some time before the anti-tank missile will be able to commit it's own atrocities upon the tank.
I think pointing out that weapons of war are bad is like saying that water is wet. However, comparing the power of destruction between the tank and the anti-tank missile launcher, both can disable each other, but the damage one can do to humans and infrastructure is just disproportionate - it's ultimately a moral good to destroy a tank.
Indeed, morality is twisted in war times. But I don't think they are celebrating killing fellow humans, they are celebrating defending their homeland from invaders.
I'm generally pro-peace in every single way. But I see a difference in celebrations from the people who are invading versus celebrations from the people who are defending themselves against invaders. One I'm fine with, the other I'm not.
As many others have already done, the people in the tank has a choice between continuing to follow orders, or going against orders and leave their jobs/equipment behind. I feel very little sympathy right now towards the people who are continuing to follow orders even if they are aware they are invading their bordering country.
They don't celebrate killing, they celebrate one less tank that can go on to kill their families, to stop their country being overrun - and, in the heat of the moment, I guess they celebrate having survived the encounter.
Yes. However that tank could also have prevented other families from being killed. These days we are seeing Putin's war on TV, but another war inside Ukraine has been ongoing for 8 years now. We couldn't see it on western media, of course, but families and civilians were also killed by the same army we're now supporting. So I won't celebrate either, because here, there are no good and bad.
Nepizdi. The guerilla war wagered in East Ukraine saw lots of civillian casualties despite best efforts of the Ukrainian military, not because of its involvement. And there would be no civilian casualties if Russia wasn't supporting the separatists and if they weren't constantly pushing misinformation over their borders.
> And there would be no civilian casualties if Russia wasn't supporting the separatists and if they weren't constantly pushing misinformation over their borders
Sure. And there would be no civilian casualties in Ukraine if its government didn't insist in joining NATO and cease to be a neutral country.
This wasn't that great of an issue until the annexation of Crimea. This is a false narrative, please sosi huy. So what if a sovereign neighbor wants to join a defensive alliance? NATO, unlike Russia, hasn't ever attacked its neighboring countries. Countries seek to join NATO to deter Russia from invalidating their sovereignty.
Well, NATO is not just a "defensive" alliance, it's more of another tool used to primarily protect the interests of the US. And of course NATO attacked countries in the past. You remember Yugoslavia, or Bosnia and Herzegovina? They were bombed by NATO just the same way today Ukraine is being attacked by Russia.
NATO were not the instigators there, not by a long shot. It was overreach, sure, but I fail to see the equivelancy. NATO didn't invade any country and didn't seize any territories.
Being a citizen of an eastern european country that joined NATO, I can promise you that my and other countries like mine are free-er to do what they please than they would be if they hadn't joined NATO.
Please, anyone reading the comments of the person above, don't be fooled, this is Russian propaganda, whether the person above is acting in good faith is irrelevant.
> NATO were not the instigators there, not by a long shot. It was overreach, sure, but I fail to see the equivelancy. NATO didn't invade any country and didn't seize any territories.
That's not the point. It was an attack and civilians died. Don't pretend that some civilians deaths are better than others just because we, the good guys from the NATO, were just "saving the world" another time.
Also, we can say Russia is not the instigator here as well, and they are just addressing Ukraine's lack of compliance with the Minks agreements and attacks to the Russian communities in eastern Ukraine.
> Please, anyone reading the comments of the person above, don't be fooled, this is Russian propaganda, whether the person above is acting in good faith is irrelevant.
I know, everything other that the official "free world" statements is propaganda. You may suggest the HN admins to ban my account, just to get a community with more plurality where only the official statements from the western countries are allowed.
You forgot to mention that another war ongoing for 8 years now was also started by Putin.
And when things go to court, like with MH17, all the evidence points that it's russia and its puppets is killing civilian families.
>like with MH17, all the evidence points that it's russia and its puppets is killing civilian families.
Evidence? That sounds like an understatement to me, we have details history of the whole thing including communication with command and photos of the route the BUK took afterward going into Russia. Its beyond shadow of doubt it was russian military that is responsible for MH17
So you think it was inappropriate to celebrate winning battles against hitler? When there are hundreds of thousands of murderers (“soldiers”) coming to your country, sometimes to genocide your people, is there never a point when a little morale boost becomes okay? In the Ukraine, they are deliberately targeting civilians and laying minefields - you can’t cheer a little bit when you manage, as the underdog, to hit back?
The nearest tank to me is on display in Mezes Park in Redwood City. That's a good 10 miles off and the tank is early ww2 and completely non functional.
There used to be a private tank collection / museum in Portola Valley but I think the heirs of the owner preferred to have dollars rather than tanks so it's been sold off.
It was a very nice collection while I lasted. The vast majority of his tanks were in running condition with the guns intentionally disabled. Not many people alive today can say they climbed inside a nazi tiger tank in running condition. And yet this guy had one in his garage, sitting there dripping oil, parked facing a working US Sherman of the same era, and a soviet T34 next to it. All run.
But back to the point, that was also like 15 miles at least from where I live.
Maybe I'm older. It feels like "war-hardware porn" to me. Watching the opening to the video in a language I do not understand — it could have been that I was watching a terrorist training video.
Thinking that this is practical life and death for real people is heart wrenching.
Thinking that I am within five miles of a tank (as are many Americans; I suspect that outside of the U.S. tanks are even more proliferate), this is somewhat scary.