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I have a Kinesis Advantage 2. It's not at all about performance, in fact I still type slower with it. The entire point is that I have pretty broad shoulders and so typing on a normal keyboard, my hands are at a very awkward "up-and-out" angle. With the Advantage 2, my hands are straight with the wrist, pointed inwards and slightly down, and need to move very little. It's pretty relaxing.

(Though whoever decided that alt-tab should require a crazy hand-spread gesture with the outside fingers spread wide, needs to have their head checked. And the function keys are an affront against all that is good in the world.)




You really ought to consider a split keyboard. I'm also broad-shouldered, and the Advantage still caused inward rotation of my arms (i.e. activating my chest muscles to pull my hands inward).

With split keyboards, you can place the two halves as far apart as you want, tent them (rotate them outward), etc. It's really an RSI game changer, especially if you have a sit/stand desk.

I think Kinesis is coming out with a split board version of it soon, but the Moonlander and Ergodox EZ are also good options you can get now (I have these).


I use and strongly prefer a split keyboard for these reasons.

I’m not too far down the rabbit hole but when I got my Ultimate Hacking Keyboard[1] I was finally a happy camper. The improvement over the few membrane split keyboards available was noticeable. Especially once I figured out the layer mappings I like.

It’s sooo much better than the butterfly MacBook keyboard that I basically don’t use my laptop away from my desk any more. I always pack my UHK when I travel. I use a Logitech mouse between the two keyboard halves.

I waited years from the initial find on Crowd Supply to having it. Then several more years before the promised “modules” shipped. By the time the modules arrived I had adapted so completely to the keyboard I haven’t actually found much use for the extra key cluster. I want to like the trackpad module but it doesn’t have two-finger scrolling so it just annoys me when I try to use it.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, this setup resulted in so much less hand, arm, and shoulder pain.

[1] https://ultimatehackingkeyboard.com/


I'm still waiting for a tenkeyless version of the Ultimate Hacking Keyboard. I like the idea of it but chording to get function keys and other keys is not something I can live with.


As a long time vim user I didn’t have as much trouble as I feared for the arrows: just hold my left thumb on mod while using hjkl. (This isn’t quite the native mapping that comes with the keyboard though.)

I mapped mod- and the four right edge keys to home, page up, page down, and end. These were familiar to me from an earlier split keyboard I used. (Goldtouch maybe? Or Kinesis freestyle?)

For function keys, Mod+2 is as easy as fn+F2 on a laptop and not much to remember/learn vs just a raw F2. But I have to admit that some of the shift-alt-Fkey combinations in IntelliJ are even harder to remember and type with an extra mod required.

Probably the thing that really got me was the default keymap requiring mod for escape. So I remapped the corner key to escape, (or backtick with mod) and I have mod-Tab to type tilde. It works, but when going back and forth to the laptop keyboard this is the one that throws me. Also I wish I could teach my Macbook keyboard to have an arrow key layer because I feel like command or caps lock plus hjkl would feel so much better than the tiny inverted T half keys on my laptop.


Looks like it is already with out a numpad (tenkeyless).


The UHK is what's termed a "65%" keyboard. A "tenkeyless" keyboard has physical function keys and the arrow key + cursor control cluster; the UHK does not have these things.


Yeah but I really liked the idea of the key wells. Far as I know, there's no split keyboard with a similar concave layout.


Kinesis has a new line coming out later this year, the Advantage 360: https://kinesis-ergo.com/keyboards/advantage360/

Fully split with the key wells, and a Kinesis board to boot.


Heck yes.

edit: Wait they've ditched the function keys entirely? God damn it Kinesis.


Dactyl/Dactyl Manuform is concave. Even more, its shape is programmatically generated, so you can separate control curvature for each axis, stagger, etc. It is literally infinitely customizable.



+1 to a split keyboard.

The keyboard.io is also a great option


Also take a look at the Dygma Raise[1]. I own one and I don't think I can work with a conventional keyboard anymore.

[1] https://dygma.com


Any recommendations on a bluetooth split keyboard? I'm not sure they even exist but that would be an amazing step forward when it comes to my desk ergonomics.


I've mostly seen Corne builds that match this description, but unfortunately they aren't very common. (https://www.reddit.com/r/mechmarket/comments/jyfrv2/ic_the_c...)


Do you have a preference on the Moonlander vs Ergodox?


I can speak from experience with the Ergodox EZ version of the ergodox. I should have done more research before purchasing it. I've experienced a stubborn debounce problem that's been mentioned by other users in forums and QMK issues over several years. I experienced it with the original firmware, and also with QMK, which I tried out of desperation. Switch bounce effects are somehow unaffected by turning debounce up to 250ms. It's not my only ergodox, but it's the only one with this problem. I've come to the opinion that there's something structurally wrong with the EZ's design.

I momentarily considered the Moonlander as a replacement until realizing that both the Ergodox EZ and the Moonlander are made and sold by ZSA.


I've never had a problem with my Ergodox EZ. Maybe it was a particular run that was problematic? I bought mine in August 2018.


Debounce can be very personal - exactly how you push the keys has a significant impact on bouncy/chatter your keys are. It's not just about the mechanisms.

I have an ErgoDox EZ as my daily driver, and have occasionally had some debounce / chatter problems, but they've never been that serious for me. I bottom out hard on every keystroke, which is not ideal but I've never been able to retrain myself away from it, and I think that's part of why I have the issue.

Bumping the debounce up a bit worked for me. YMMV.


There's a version and batch number on the bottom of the keyboard, mine's batch 3a and V3. From what I've gathered it's hit or miss. This EZ is the only keyboard I've had issues with. The interesting part is that it's specific keys. Iffy solder joints were my first guess but that checks out. I haven't put the effort into checking components yet.


I like that the thumb cluster on the Moonlander has an adjustable angle - the fixed angle on the Ergodox EZ wasn't the most comfortable fit for me. As well, if you are going to be carrying the keyboard around with you, the Moonlander folds down flat and comes stock with a neoprene carrying case and the hex wrench to readjust it, so it's fairly trivial.

I've also had no debounce issues across two of them.


Yes if you have to buy only one, Moonlander is the right choice. If one has access to a 3d printer, they have a community set of cad files for useful accessories (e.g. more tenting support, if needed) [0].

[0] https://www.zsa.io/moonlander/printables/


>And the function keys are an affront against all that is good in the world.

"Classic" Function keys are fine for what they are - dedicated, offset groups of four that 1:1 map to your fingers, facilitating fast and reliable(! Tactile discovery FTW!) hand travel away from the home row and back.

It's the "make one big sea of keys" approach and the idea that every key must be reachable without moving your hand that lead to the terrible abominations we often get today (sadly, on the current MS Ergo iteration as well...what were they thinking?!).


That falls under "is it comfortable".


Sure but I mean there's a level of "is it comfortable" where you use a tool all day and "it is uncomfortable" can literally mean "it gives me rsi, making me unable to do my job."


I have the same keyboard for about 5 years now, I type waaaay faster on the Kinesis than on any other keyboard hands down.




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