It’s not just that online polls do not provide valid data, it’s that they provide misleading data.

Then we have to accept we are being misled about how many people did not previously know about HN polls.

I'm just annoyed there's no CowboyNeal option

For those that don't know and were born after 2K Cowboy Neal is (was?) a moderator(owner?) over at slashdot.com. His name usually appears(ed?) with some snarky option on slashdot polls.

This was also my immediate reaction, especially given the non-serious 'dang is a lizard' option.

We're getting old. Most people here wouldn't recognise it.

"dang is a lizard" is the new Cowboy Neal.

On HN you use dang instead. Didn't you know?

Until a few hours ago I didn't know you could have polls at all

I was joking,I didn't know either.

But by who? Who is the puppet master?

Deception and bias can emerge without intent or control.

Which again is a major point behind statistical data gathering methods and practices. Invalid methods -> invalid results. Regardless of intent.

(Though of course, those intent on deceiving can construct biased samples to drive their agenda.)

@dang? /s

Potato potato, as they say. It wouldn't be surprising if there was no link at all between reality and the poll.

Consider as a worse case; there is a political question with a fairly clear reality ("the legislators should legislate the value of exp(1) to be 2.5 to make life easier"). The silent majority ignores the silly poll, and the lunatics who believe this is a good idea all put in a vote because they want to promote their mad cause.

The poll could therefore be biased to be exactly wrong. May as well call it invalid data and save the time thinking about it.

Opinion polls, properly constructed and conducted, measure opinion. They do not measure any truth other than the truth of a specific opinon.

Polling for the value of e is rather like polling for the piloting of a jetliner. You could certainly do it. It would end rather badly in virtually all instances.

The point is the poll wouldn't be picking up the opinion of the crowd. It would be picking up the least representative sample of people; those who have an incentive for the poll to mis-represent popular opinion.

I only picked exp() as an example because it can't start a political argument.

HN is very representative of the type of technologists that frequent HN.

It's the kind of thing that's very popular among those who like that sort of thing.

I think we're largely in agreement, if discussing different elements of the same question.

Are you suggest that my vote of ‘yes, dang is a lizard’, ‘yes’ and ‘no’ is misleading?

This depends entirely on the lizards.

every data is misleading when you dont know how to interpret it

Corollary: all data are relational.

Misleading implies intent, no?