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I've never seen an employment contract, period. I'm in the US and have always worked as an employee, not a contractor.



I'm skeptical you've never seen an employment contract, or had a verbal agreement (which is a binding contract, too).

In any case, if you're a "full time employee", there is a legal definition of that, which will be binding, as that is necessary to comply with all sorts of employment laws based around how many hours per week one works.

The only jobs without an employment agreement are under-the-table ones, or you're working for someone who has never run a business before and hasn't run afoul yet of the labor laws.


Believe it. I've never signed anything that constituted a binding contract. Nor have I ever agreed to anything like "40 hours." I have worked for multiple SF tech companies, including public companies. So, you're wrong on all counts.

Edit: here is literally the applicable phrase from my last offer letter:

> As an exempt salaried employee, you will be expected to work the hours, including evenings and weekends, required to perform your job duties.


The offer letter is a contract if you accept it.

What does it say about your duties?

Note that salaried employees can legally have a day's pay deducted if they don't work that day (Fair Labor Standards Act). So there is an expectation that you'll be working.

It's not illegal to have multiple salaried jobs. But you can run afoul of your agreement, because of things like conflict of interest, non-disclosure, non-compete, security, etc. This would all depend on what your offer letter says.


Yeah, and where did you go to law school? An offer letter is not a binding contract. See:

* "Unlike offer letters, an employment contract is meant to create a binding promise between the worker and employer." https://blog.bernieportal.com/differences-between-offer-lett...

* "Contrary to what most people think, a signed offer letter, except in very rare instances, is not a legally binding implied contract. ": https://www.tonybeshara.com/tips/accepting-an-offer-new-empl...

* "An Offer Letter... Isn’t a legally binding contract": https://arcoro.com/blog/offer-letter-vs-employment-contract/


I'm curious what you'd do if they took the work you did and didn't pay you, or only paid you half. Would you be mad? Would you sue? After all, you don't have an agreement.


Sure, but that doesn't apply here. If my manager is happy with my work, by definition, expectations are being met, which means I'm entitled to be paid in full. Time and effort don't factor into the equation. The phrase in the offer letter works both ways: "hours... required to perform your job duties" can be more or less than 40.


That's why employment laws exist to protect workers. Wage theft is illegal, regardless of whatever agreements you signed.


I think Walter was too busy creating the D programming language to attend law school! :P


That was sort of my point :P


I only play a lawyer on TV!


Did you also stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night?


Haha what? Really?


Being an employee doesn't come with a contract you sign when you begin your employment? (Not facetious, genuine question. Every new job and promotion comes with one here.)


Not typically, at least not in my experience as an IC. I have literally never signed anything that was a binding employment contract.


> I'm in the US and have always worked as an employee, not a contractor

> my experience as an IC

Seems to be a contradiction.


Enlighten me.


You're working as a contractor or not?


No. That is what I have plainly written.


What does IC mean to you?


Individual contributor. Again, sorry for the confusion.


Whaaaaaaaat? Where are you based? I've had that for every role in the EU/UK


SF Bay Area.


I’m there now too but still work for an EU startup. Weird to think there’s such a difference - I’d be freaked out leaving for something without a written agreement!


Don't think I'm not, either.




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