This is getting toward conspiracy theory territory. It's... a building code. Yes. Yes, I tend to trust building codes that have been keeping all of us safe in our homes and offices for the better part of a century. If building codes don't work, then where are the disasters in all the other buildings? You're saying that every other building in the USA in the 20th century "just happened" to be built safely, despite a thousand year history of terrible urban fires, and that regulation had nothing to do with it?
Nothing conspirational about it. In the follow up to the Grenfell fire[1], my development was reviewed and the cladding in use on several buildings was found… less than ideal. The homeowner’s association is currently drafting a plan to have it replaced.
This isn’t some theoretical, conspiracy-laden issue. It’s an actual problem.
> In the follow up to the Grenfell fire[1], my development was reviewed and the cladding in use on several buildings was found… less than ideal.
Yes! And by whom was it reviewed? And what happened when they reviewed it? I'm guessing the answers are "government regulators", and "they made sure it was fixed". And now it's being fixed.
You're literally citing the fact that safety regulation worked correctly as evidence... that it doesn't? Without the regulators you'd still be living in a deathtrap!
Which means one should not trust that new and existing buildings are safe because of the mere existence of code or that there are competent people that exist to review and report.
The safety regulation did not work because of the 71 people that died in Grenfell. What would you say if you lived there yourself "ah thats just bad luck for me"? what would you say if you lived there yourself and were one of the people that was reporting to the regulators about the problems in advance "I trust this system, I'm glad this system is based purely on trust, trust works so well, all should trust building codes because they are CODES, I like codes, they are infallible, its so cool that people exist to review the codes as well. This happens so rare due to the codes and not from simply being an uncommon occurrence that challenges building standard."
I don't really understand what your perspective here is to be honest. Not being wrong?
"Yes! And by whom was it reviewed? And what happened when they reviewed it? I'm guessing the answers are "government regulators"
I think you misunderstood the poster - 100 people burned alive because the regulators were asleep at the wheel. That tragic disaster is the only reason his building was checked for adequacy, and it failed, along with thousands of others.
Right now there are thousands of buildings which were built and sold in breach of fire regulation, and the apartment owners are being saddled with 100% of the bill even when they own 25% of the apartment. In some cases the cost of repair exceeds the value of the property.
My point is that regulation is necessary, but not sufficient. Saying "It complies with regulation" isn't enough to deflect criticism — compliant buildings can still have serious safety issues.
That's correct. I don't appreciate your willingness to invalidate what I and others are pointing out to you.
Building codes are state and municipal level laws. There is no harmonization. There are varying degrees of compliance based on competency, actual corruption conspiracies, and budget all of which changes decade over decade, building by building.
Many other regulations and individual behaviors have helped keep people safe. The way electronics work, the way people are educated, the public service announcements, the response times, and sometimes the building materials. Some things have actually become more flammable over the years.
Regarding building codes, 98 people just died in a literal building collapse in the Miami area. Your standard, if I understand correctly, is "that was just 1, where are the city wide Chicago fires", when the counterpoint is that this collapse prompted reviews of many properties and many more structural issues have been found in just that one municipality that threaten hundreds and thousands of people.
You shouldn't trust this process. You should root for the process to work decently since the probability of a disaster is low - this is the only area we agree! the incidents aren't happening! - but you should know that this is all luck. Continual luck in a system that barely works.
I don't see any conspiracy. I think it's obvious that the situation vis-à-vis fire safety has improved, and improved tremendously over the past 100 or so years. But I also think it would be a mistake to think that the answer to the question "are we there yet" is "yes". That is to say, don't assume we've reached some final, end-goal state where safety regulations are ideal.
Large, multi-fatality fires are less common now, but they do still occur. I'd argue that we can always aspire to get better with regards to fire safety.
This is getting toward conspiracy theory territory. It's... a building code. Yes. Yes, I tend to trust building codes that have been keeping all of us safe in our homes and offices for the better part of a century. If building codes don't work, then where are the disasters in all the other buildings? You're saying that every other building in the USA in the 20th century "just happened" to be built safely, despite a thousand year history of terrible urban fires, and that regulation had nothing to do with it?