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Why to Start a Startup in a Bad Economy (2008) (paulgraham.com)
118 points by shawndumas on Aug 10, 2011 | hide | past | favorite | 25 comments



My 2 cents...

What is more likely to create a company built to last? 1) A firm starved for cash, but with boadloads of the best talent or 2) A firm starved for talent, but with boatloads of cash

In situation 1, a great leader can create gold. In situation 2, all a leader can do is line their pockets.

In 2002 and 2008 there were fantastic people that were unemployed through no fault of their own. People who just aren't visible in normal times. In many cases, these top performers already have money, so they can take a risk. Better to invest sweat in the dark days than cash in the bright ones.


One more point to add to the "pro" column for starting a company in a down economy: your opportunity cost is typically lower. Fewer promotions and larger numbers of layoffs occur in large companies during the bad times.


>When times get bad, hackers go to grad school. And no doubt that will happen this time too.

I am going to graduate with a bachelor's in EE in less than a year, and had been planning on going to grad school for CS. Is this a bad idea?


I think what PG meant was many people go to grad school to wait out the bad economy while it's hard to find good jobs. Is that your case, or you always wanted to go to grad school?

The other poster said it right, consider your reasons for attending in the first place.

The final point that PG makes is investing in your own startup. If you have a solid team and execution skills, then by giving up on grad school and investing your youth and energy into your startup could yield better returns relative to "investing" later when the market is hot.


I think I am going to avoid my student loans for a little longer. I would love to work for a small startup but I feel my EE degree would be useless, and too be honest I don't even know how to see out such employment. As my graduation date brings the time when my loans will start accruing interest closer I feel like my only option is to go to grad school or take an entry level engineering position at a large firm.

I don't see how I can fit startup employment or even creation into the path I chose 4 years ago. If only I could talk to myself 4 years ago.


That's absurd. I don't know how much you code or how good you are at coding, but if that's how you feel, the solution is to start coding more. Right now.

Since you're in EE, I'm sure you have have the basics of coding down. Even if you're kinda shaky now and don't know any of the hot stuff a lot of startups are using (Ruby/Python/etc), you can absolutely get to the point that startups would want you in a year of playing around on the side. Once you know the basics of coding, it's not all that hard.

I'm not sure what the market will be like in a year, but right now everyone is desperate for talent. You don't know how to seek out such employment? HN has a jobs section. Almost every startup you use has a jobs link in their footer, and they're all hiring. Check out GitHub jobs, StackOverflow jobs, 37signals job board, etc. Get yourself a little bit of exposure via open source contributions, blogging about technical things, Hacker News, etc. and they'll come to you.

As for student loans, though startups pay less, they still pay pretty high salaries, especially now when all the companies have cash and competition for talent is insane. As long as you keep living fairly cheaply (which can still be a couple steps up from a dorm, but may involve sharing housing, especially if you end up somewhere expensive like the Bay Area), I'm sure you can get an offer that would allow you to live and pay your loan payments. And then you're actually decreasing how much you owe instead of just pushing it off.

If you really want to go to grad school, go to grad school, but if you want to work for a startup but feel like you "can't", take steps to make sure you can.


Thanks for the advice. I taught myself python this summer and am currently learning GUI programming with pyqt. I am also learning django and javascript/coffeescript. I recently contacted the developers of IPython to see if I could help out anywhere and I have been reading to source of the qt-console app they just shipped with the new IPython. My goal is to have some meaningful contributions by the time I graduate.

So although I sounded pessimistic in my post above, I am trying to turn myself into someone desirable to startups. But I still have the feeling it is too little too late. Here's to hoping I am wrong though.


Work a bit, gain a bunch of experience (pay off that student debt and save some money) and then decide if you want to go to grad school still.


Is going into CS a bad idea, or grad school?

I have a BSEE and went to grad school for EE after a two year break. I forgot how much I loved software over my break and wish I had majored in CS for grad school. I dropped out of an MSEE program after one year, got a job writing software and haven't looked back.

As far as the "grad school" or "startup" question, I'd think it involves several things. Where is your startup now? If it's moving along, maybe you should stay with it. Where is your heart at? If it's not in grad school, or the work you might do after, then why stay? My heart wasn't in my master's program. What grad school are you in? If I got accepted into <insert prestigious school's name here> and had funding, I'd consider giving it a shot. But that's just me.


we started our business in 2007 and have seemingly grown without issue despite tough times in our economy. it wasn't intentional that we started when the economy was going down, just a coincidence. it has worked out pretty well so far..


I just wish people can make their minds up on if this is a tech bubble or a recession.


Why?

In the current context talk about a recession isn't due to any sort of tech bubble. Talk about a recession is due to issues with the financial system and debt.

A small recession caused by a tech bubble would honestly be more desirable (in my mind anyway) than what issues with the financial system and debt could produce.

Also, a downturn in the tech industry now wouldn't necessarily be because of a tech bubble, but rather due to lack of confidence in the financial system as a whole.


Agree. I was speaking in the context of funding available to startups. On the one hand people seem to think there's way too much VC money readily available. On the other hand, this money has to come from the financial sector and it can't if it's a recession.


Is it coming from the same part of the financial sector?


Actually, they're connected: the Fed is trying to encourage a recovery in the general economy with low interest rates/quantitative easing, which has the effect of creating asset bubbles in some sectors (tech, commodities, ...) as investors look for decent returns.


The two are not mutually exclusive. There is a recession for lower and middle-class jobs, and a tech bubble.


Why does it matter? The point of the essay is that if you're going to start a startup, it shouldn't matter what the current economic conditions are. You and your idea will either succeed, or they won't. It has much more to do with you and your idea than with the economy.


I think the point about the need to be a contrarian investor, and the fact that contrarians are in the minority by definition is really compelling.

I'm not sure if I'm reading this into the essay, or it was intentional, but it seems to be that a good quality for a founder is the focus on the business they want to create should be strong enough that external factors like the macro-economic situation become essentially background noise.

Or, maybe I'm just pig-headed!

I do always wonder, when investors talk about how important the team is, how they judge the strength of a team. Recruiters can't judge programmers very well, so, how does the average investor? PG has an advantage, being a programmer himself. I'm assuming most investors are not technical people.


When PG is talking about the strength of the team, he's not just talking about programming. He's talking about business skills, technical skills, personality, the whole package. Technology is only one small part of what makes a company successful.


And most importantly, perseverance.


You may be pig-headed, but you're right!

If you want to start a business, start a business and forget about waiting for the "perfect moment." The situation will never be exactly right. You work with what you have, not what you wish you had.


In a sense it's like having a baby. There are always 100 financial reasons to postpone, but if you wait too long (despite 100 good reasons!) you wind up saying, "I wish I done this years ago!"


Already?


Paul Graham is the man. So many great posts.


Ha! Seems like HN has already pronounced the current economy a doozy.




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