Frankly it was an interesting observation of yours, but a less charitable view of your comment is that you were subtly trying to start the same idiotic flame thread found at the bottom of any Brave post on this forum. And you did.
In case your observation was in good faith, I don't think Mozilla would have gone so deep into crypto and those little unsavoury sponsorships (Binance, etc.) had Eich never left his top spot, and I am positive his governance would have kept Mozilla and Firefox itself in a better place than whatever is happening over there right now.
Feels like we're watching the slow death of a beloved tech company that's one of the cornerstones of net neutrality, and I can't see a way out for them without radical changes in direction and management.
> Frankly it was an interesting observation of yours, but a less charitable view of your comment is that you were subtly trying to start the same idiotic flame thread found at the bottom of any Brave post on this forum. And you did.
Nope. I simply stated the facts, not that it really was the point of my comment anyway, hence the edit.
> In case your observation was in good faith, I don't think Mozilla would have gone so deep into crypto and those little unsavoury sponsorships (Binance, etc.) had Eich never left his top spot, and I am positive his governance would have kept Mozilla and Firefox itself in a better place than whatever is happening over there right now.
It's hard to say. I don't agree with crypto and think it's not really a great way to go, but Mozilla has Google funding - I don't think it's ridiculous to think Mozilla Rewards or equivalent could've been introduced somehow (with or without crypto)
The "without crypto" path would have been a regulated-in-most-regions in-game token, a gift card or existing portable-points system (TAP network), Amazon Prime, or something super-high-friction involving credit card or ACH. There aren't other options AFAIK.
I didn't say Mozilla fired Eich. The reality is, per your own source, is that Eich was going to be CEO, and he was no longer given that role, so he left. Given that he was already CTO before this debacle, the board trying to get him to stay in another C-suite role is effectively a demotion.
You also don't acknowledge that half of Mozilla's board resigned immediately after his appointment to CEO and one board member cited his appointment as explicitly being the reason.
No one is going to stay under those circumstances. So his choices were basically stay at Mozilla, whose very own employees were protesting his appointment, or leave. I'm going to stick with "forced out." I find it amusing that Mozilla in your source insists that he wasn't forced out, when their own recounting of the events only leads one to believe he resigned to due the intense organized protests surrounding his appointment. Ultimately you'd have to ask Eich privately to know for sure. All I'll say is that when someone is demoted, they're going to leave. Whether that's CEO or Senior Software Engineer.
I don't even agree with Eich's own (former) positions on same-sex marriage, but let's call it what it is, yes? Now, whether or not his forcing out was good, or just, is another matter, and discussion entirely.
I'm not trying to rewrite history or pick sides...but... if I remember right wasn't it basically that everyone at Mozilla kept calling him a bigot and saying they wouldn't work there? And rather than argue back and forth, he realized it would be easier to just resign? That's what I remember, at least. It is true he wasn't 'fired', but basically pushed into a wall and told to do something.
I hate playing cards and hate disagreeing with a personal hero even more, but as a gay person I frankly have a hard time caring. Eich is an idiot on the same level as Rob Monster, but he has a right to espouse or endorse whatever completely bonkers shit he wants. That's the reason why open source exists, and why we reserve the right to maintain a fork of someone's software if their leadership comes into question. I use Firefox every day, not in tacit recognition of homophobia or gamergate, but because I need a good browser that isn't made by Google. Mozilla is the second party, the leverage I need as an individual, and I should hope that they have dissenting opinions in their corporate structure. That's what drives innovation, it only becomes an issue when he abuses his power as a CEO to push his personal agenda. He didn't though, so I have a hard time pointing out where the "abuse" is in this situation. If it makes people uncomfortable to know they're constantly surrounded by people who disagree with them, maybe developing a web browser isn't the right line of work.
I have no dog in the "he quit/fired" race, but I find it disappointing that we've stooped to finger-pointing as a community. Open source was built to be better than this, not stooping to the same level as bigotry.
It is impossible to have an HN post about Brave without two mentions:
- Brave's foray in the crypto world
- What Eich did in his last moments at Mozilla
It is a rare and bittersweet joy to see someone try their hardest to detach for the constant, angry mob that forms every time there's a chance to. We are no better than Reddit or YouTube comments, however we want to think we are.
100%. All the histrionics would be screaming ENLIGHTENEDCENTRISM! You support the status quo! You're alt-right/Nazi adjacent with your complicitness! etc. ad nauseam.
smoldesu's take is refreshing, even though he's absolutely be skewered for it if he dared to say it on the company Slack.
So how did they harass? They told about harassment against their employees by Brendan Eich. I guess the main question is whether that is harassing. Brendan Eich did the same publicly against his employees.
I never harassed anyone at Mozilla or anywhere else. You wrote "They [Mozilla] told about harassment against their employees by Brendan Eich." Where did Mozilla allege any such thing?
Hi Don, you shouldn't jump in here to harass me. BTW, I still have all those Facebook messages you sent years ago, some violent in tone and metaphor, to which I never responded (but I did report to Facebook). Should I publish them here?
I was not talking to you, for good and now obvious-to-everyone reasons. You are so unbalanced when it comes to me that you didn't even read the comment above to which you copy-pasted the same blob of text that you've spammed elsewhere on HN, about how I quit and I wasn't fired. The commenter above never said I was fired.
The issue with Prop 8 was the definition of, not right to, state licensed marriage (it proscribed bigamy and polygamy too). Try not inserting your hostile conclusions as premises of your questions. I'm not going to reply further to you.
Feelings alone without action cannot be considered harassment, legally or by that definition. Words are the means to meaning, and if you continue to misuse them, no one will talk with you.
Quite the bullet we dodged. It’s a good example for my pet theory that seemingly irrelevant (for the work) things like homophobia tend to pretty good heuristics for general shiftiness (I had a different word in mind, but autocorrect did a smart thing)
EDIT: Some people took offense, so I am more explicit in my hypothetical here.