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Reminder: Turn off location services/GPS systemwide to opt out of these databases. The subscriber location tracking performed by cell towers is much lower resolution.



I am skeptical of using only technical solutions to non-technical problems. It rarely scales, IMO.

Disclaimer: Work at Google, but opinions are my own.


Agree. If we had better privacy laws, this wouldn't be an issue.


Cops don't care about the privacy laws which already exist. (See: parallel construction.) If we had better privacy laws, they would just get sneakier.


Yup, and even so, it's up to the defendant to prove themselves innocent, which will take tens of thousands of dollars just to get to the point where a judge throws the case out.


Cops care deeply about what privacy laws exist. That still limits what data they can legitimately get access to. In this case they could of used a Stingray or equivalent but:

* They would not of known where to place it before the crime took place.

* Even if they somehow got the data about the location of the cyclist under the table they would have had no way to parallel construct anything.

Since there was no other evidence that would of been it.

This is not a new thing. The authorities can open and read your mail as much as they want using bamboo splints and/or the steam from a kettle. But because it is very illegal to do that it greatly reduces the abuse possible from such actions.

Privacy laws are a prerequisite and are essential.


The subscriber location tracking performed by cell towers is part of the e911 system. It's pretty accurate by design. Now how much and how long that data is retained is up to the mobile network provider. They've had no qualms about selling it in the past.


google android tracks location even when gps off

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=google+android+tracks+location+eve...


It tracks which towers you are connected to according to the article. No triangulation or precise location.


Cell phone tower triangulation has been around for so long that there's decades-old movies to its effect. To claim that there's no triangulation in current tech is, IMO, an intentionally malicious claim.


If it tracks signal strength as well, then it's just one extra step to triangulation.


The only foolproof method is to stick your phone in a Faraday cage both going to and leaving the location you want private, right? Or cage it and leave it at home?


I can't find it now, but I read an article about the Capitol riot that said the FBI was actively looking for individuals whose phones followed the pattern you describe. Traveling towards the Capitol on Jan 6, going dark, later coming back online is perhaps an indicator the person didn't want to be observed at the Capitol. Likewise, traveling to D.C., and leaving the phone at the hotel all day, then moving in the evening was an indicator the person may have been at the Capitol.

I bring this up to say, Faraday cage and leaving the phone behind may not even be enough with a sufficiently large surveillance state.

Edit: leaving the phone at home is different than a hotel, of course. But even that might raise too much suspicion unless you frequently, and randomly, leave it at home. That way the lack of movement wouldn't necessarily indicate you didn't want to be tracked at a particular moment.


I heard the same thing from Alan Dershowitz on Preet Bharara's podcast. I think you'd certainly need to keep your phone dark for long periods of time prior to the event and possibly have someone briefly unsheath it from the cage for plausible deniability. Even so, you're only ensuring that the prosecution can't use that piece of evidence against you - you're not exonerating yourself entirely by any stretch.


Things are probably not quite there yet, but...

How about a real-time analysis of all security camera footage and everyone's photos and videos, using face recognition and other techniques (movement, clothes associated with a person etc.). Cars are tracked via license plate, if they are not online now anyway. You pay cash but "they" know the serial number of the bill the ATM gave to you and which shop owner gave it back to the bank a little later.

There are probably many patterns that are only known to people who do this kind of thing full time. Maybe there is a very small number of people who buy the very same two items at a gas station. If Amazon knows who's pregnant early, some will know who's trying to go private and why before they know it...


>There are probably many patterns that are only known to people who do this kind of thing full time

I agree with you. I think, at some point, the only way to go about doing this without inducing insanity is to get someone on the federal side to tell you what tools they have at their disposal so that you know exactly what you're fighting against. Otherwise, you'd drive yourself crazy with tinted windows, license plate switchers, randomized purchases, Faraday cages, and more.


Tricky to use e.g. Google's Waze then.


So don't.

Check traffic before you depart, pick a route, and leave some extra time in case you hit unexpected traffic.

I know I've been going on about it lately, but for almost every "How can we possibly do this without an app tracking every bit of data it possibly can?" sort of task, people were doing that, or something functionally equivalent, before cell phones, or on cell phones that aren't actively user-hostile.


Smartphones are useful but 15 years ago really weren't the Dark Ages because no one had a modern smartphone in their pocket. Even 25 years ago--before most people had cell phones at all--really weren't wither.

Yes, I carry and use a smartphone. But it's a convenience. I don't need to reach people or have them reach me wherever I am. I don't need GPS at all times. I don't always need instant access to information.


Checking traffic before you depart also leaks your location, as well as your intended path of travel.


It can not be used to prove that you actually did travel though. You can also put in only approximate address locations.

Google isn't going to be running some inference algorithm to identify your most probable location or residence, they are just going to give LE the raw data. Unless you are a extremely wanted criminal, LE probably doesn't have the resources to do extensive analysis of google maps searches and a jury is not going to interpret those results the same way they would of actual location history.


If you get to the point where a jury is evaluating anything you have already lost.


OSMand is open source and really good for navigation. It's on f-droid.


How do you use it in any way except by punching in lat/long? I cannot search for local addresses using it, which is a non-starter.




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