50k is really amateur numbers. 50k people have probably already read you comment. Charli Damelio's last post was her eating a bag of Takis for 20 seconds and it got 15 MILLION views. We're just not seeing those numbers in marginalized communities on tiktok but we do see queer creators with top-tier numbers on youtube, facebook, insta, etc. Where's the trans Charli or the obese Charli or the anti-capitalist Charli?
Secondly, you're cherry picking examples. First you can't see how much more exposure these people would have had. Secondly, you're probably not in a country where these people would be invisible to you.
Cherry-picking model minorities isn't helping your case at all. I'm not seeing anything too upsetting to the status quo here or to anything that might threaten tiktok economically. Those voices certainly aren't going to be heard as much. This is like cherry picking popular books, movies, and posters in China and saying, "So where's all the censorship then?" Survivorship bias is at work here, you're only really seeing the survivors.
Its incredible that tiktok literally has admitted to this:
Yet somehow the popular HN response is alt-right denial and dismissal of anything that remotely sounds "SJW" to them. Literally after The Intercept and Netzpolitik broke these stories to the public. Its not even in the realm of "wow are they doing this?" As much as it is in the realm of "How much of this are they doing and how much do we not know?"
“TikTok users posting videos with these hashtags are given the impression their posts are just as searchable as posts by other users, but in fact they aren’t,” the report said. “In practice, most of these hashtags are categorised in TikTok’s code in the same way that terrorist groups, illicit substances, and swear words are treated on the platform.”
Its incredible to me that the oppression could not be more obvious, yet bigoted attitudes guarantee that some people will refuse to believe even what tiktok says. The fact that this company is grouping terrorists with queer and disabled people is completely and utterly inexcusable.
Also encouraging vaccinations isn't "propaganda" but sane and safe health policy.
>alt-right denial and dismissal of anything that remotely sounds "SJW" to them.
Purely Pragmatic Advice : if people deny or dismiss something you think is true because of "SJW fatigue", accusing them of being alt-right is the last thing you want to do if you want to effectively sway them.
You are cherry picking influencers to try and argue your point.. How do you know Charli Damelio isn’t queer? Maybe the reason you don’t see a certain demographic doing big numbers on a platform is because the users on said platform are not interested? I find it odd that you immediately jump to the conclusion that it must be oppression because everybody doesn’t find what you think they should find interesting.
I’d rather watch somebody eat a bag of chips than listen to them talk about their sexual preferences.. I could care less what somebody finds attractive or who/what they are dating.
> Also encouraging vaccinations isn't "propaganda" but sane and safe health policy.
Sane and safe health policy can still be propaganda. The moment you distill things into messages you just repeat and push, it’s propaganda: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propaganda
As a queer person who uses TikTok, I think you should take some time to challenge your assumptions and get some more information. This video might be informative: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MYEtQ5Zdn8
I should correct a mistake I made earlier: all of my numbers cited are likes not views. The TikTok promoting vaccines was seen 3.5 Million times. There are many queer creators with videos in the millions of views, and many more with videos in the hundreds of thousands.
Still, I don't think its reasonable to expect niche content from obese people to perform as well as generic content from normative people. I also don't think its reasonable to expect trans content to perform as well, given that a substantial portion of the US population still doesn't want to recognize or legalize their existence.
Yet, there is an abundance of queer content (content that sought me out, I never told TikTok that I'm gay), much of it quite niche. TikTok sends me enough gay male twink armpit fetish content that I don't realistically think you can say they're making a serious effort to suppress it.
If you're focusing on hashtags and not algorithm suggestions, I think you don't have a strong grasp of how TikTok works. All of the cited sources are quite old, so perhaps it was too early for folks to actually have time to use and understand the service.
Your claim that there is nothing threatening to China or TikTok economically is suspect, given the algorithm has also suggested Uighur muslim genocide content: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR1RhcUj/ - there are many more. This one has 65k likes. I also had no trouble searching for Taiwan and finding content that is quite hostile to China. I've had the fyp send me content directly critical of TikTok itself.
> “In practice, most of these hashtags are categorised in TikTok’s code in the same way that terrorist groups, illicit substances, and swear words are treated on the platform.”
The implementation details of an app aren't necessarily meaningful in the way you suggest. Twitter does something similar; I can type #isis #gay #weed #sex, and now Twitter has code that handles lgbtq, terrorist, and illicit substance content the same way.
> also don't think its reasonable to expect trans content to perform as well, given that a substantial portion of the US population still doesn't want to recognize or legalize their existence
1.) A substantial portion of the US population doesn't want to recognize or legalize the existence of trans people? What are you talking about? You're aware of some faction that's actively trying to make being transgender illegal?
2.) Your expectation is that content produced by transgender individuals (less than 1% of the population) is on aggregate as popular as content made by the remaining 99% of people? Do you mind defining the distribution you would consider to be acceptable here, as well as why you think it currently isn't your desired distribution?
2) I am specifically contesting that assertion. We appear to have a case of violent agreement here. One of the earlier posts suggested that lack of a trans person with 10+ million views is evidence that TT is suppressing content. I contend that the relative unpopularity of trans-related content (only hundreds of thousands or a few million views) is well explained by structural factors and no intervention on TT’s part would be needed to create that outcome. If anything, my experience is that queer and trans content is overrepresented on the platform relative to what you’d expect based on the IRL population/demographics.
Okay well let's limit the conversation to #1, then. Let's start with legal, since it's easier.
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So, I don't understand what any of what you linked has to do with "legalizing the existence of trans people." Nothing referenced in the wikipedia article is remotely to do with making it illegal to be transgender, and I have never heard an argument advocating for that.
So what is being debated is whether or not transgender individuals should be granted protections on the basis of their gender identity. That is not debating whether or not they should exist, it is debating whether or not an additional legislative layer should be put in place to prevent workplace discrimination on the basis of gender identity.
Then there is a debate about birth certificates, about whether or not transgender individuals should be able to have their birth certificate reflect their chosen gender identity, but this is just as much to do with language as anything else. The concept of sex vs gender identity, and the meaning of "gender" as ambiguous between those depending on political faction. Again, this isn't a debate about whether transgender people can legally exist, it's a debate about whether the world should be altered so as to conform to their own perception of themselves.
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This leads to "recognition." Your definition of "recognition" seems to be "recognized within the exact framing of themselves as they wish to be seen." Let's consider two examples of identity related dysphoria. One is a born biological male who considers his gender identity to be female, and one is a man on a street corner that believes himself to be Jesus Christ. If the rest of society refused to see the man on the corner as Jesus Christ, would you say that this was society not recognizing the existence of the man? Surely not. The acceptance of his existence, and the application of all human rights applied to the individual have nothing to do with whether or not people accept this man on all of the terms of his asserted identity. In regards to transgender individuals, accepting this person's identity often boils down to strict hardline questions, a la "is this person a woman?" Any degree of nuance in the answer to that question is to be understood as society "not recognizing the existence" of transgender people? No. I'm sorry. But a failure to recognize somebody exactly within the framing of their own identity that they put forward is not the same as not accepting their existence. That language is absurd.
I don’t know why you would limit the discussion to #1 when #2 is the only part that is really relevant to the topic at hand.
Assertion 1 is offered as evidence that TT wouldn’t need to actively suppress trans content for it to be unpopular. Perhaps that was unconvincing. I’d say you’re arguing a lot about specifics of terms to weasel out of accepting that some people don’t like trans people. The language argument is particularly weak in the way that arguments about word usage usually are. It is in fact quite common to use the language of “existence” when discussing gender/sex/orientation identity. Whether the physically don’t exist in a country, don’t exist as lgbt people, or don’t count as people at all: https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/prominent-leader-chechnya-sa...
Okay, so if we're talking about murdering people because they are trans, that is what I'm talking about as not allowing them to exist. So let's look at the data. 33 gender-non-conforming people killed in 2021, by August, which we can extrapolate out to 50 for the year.
So, 50/19,000 means that 0.26% of murders are to gender-non-conforming people, which is less than the 0.6% of the US population which identifies as transgender. So the murders are literally under represented. And given that the murders are a broader category of gender-non-conforming, vs the 0.6% figure which is a subset that is specifically trans, the degree to which gender-non-conforming people are murdered as compared to the general population is even more under-represented.
So, no, trans people are not being prevented from existing in that capacity in the United States.
Now, in regards to not accepting people's identity, as I've already said...this is a completely different thing. If you take someone like JK Rowling, who is frequently labeled a TERF, then the criteria for "not allowing trans people to exist" is literally predicated on the existence of somebody who says that biological women exist as a valid category that is distinct from trans women. That is what JK Rowling says. She doesn't say trans people don't exist. She doesn't say that trans identities aren't valid, or that she wouldn't treat a trans person by the gender they identify with. She just says that a biological woman is a valid categorization. Now, of course there are people that don't accept that trans people's identities are what they say they are, but again, this also includes a good deal of semantic disagreement.
When a trans woman asserts "I am a woman," and somebody else says "no you're not," there is quite a bit of semantic warfare going on in that disagreement. The trans woman is saying, "I am a woman, which I mean to say that my gender is woman, which I mean to say is that my gender identity is woman, and therefore I am a woman." The critic says "no, you are not a woman, which I mean to say that your sex is not a woman." Again, this is not denying their right to exist, this is functionally a semantic argument. Freedom to exist does not mean that everyone in the society accepts the identity you put forth, and this isn't just limited to gender issues.
Have you responded to the wrong comment here? You seem to be agreeing that obese, trans and other niche content is likely to be less popular than generic, less niche content.
1.) A substantial portion of the US population doesn't want to recognize or legalize the existence of trans people? What are you talking about? You're aware of some faction that's actively trying to make being transgender illegal?
Hard to read what you disagree with here, but yes there are factions that are trying to make behaviours that trans people exhibit illegal. For example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bathroom_bill
Secondly, you're cherry picking examples. First you can't see how much more exposure these people would have had. Secondly, you're probably not in a country where these people would be invisible to you.
Cherry-picking model minorities isn't helping your case at all. I'm not seeing anything too upsetting to the status quo here or to anything that might threaten tiktok economically. Those voices certainly aren't going to be heard as much. This is like cherry picking popular books, movies, and posters in China and saying, "So where's all the censorship then?" Survivorship bias is at work here, you're only really seeing the survivors.
Its incredible that tiktok literally has admitted to this:
https://www.dazeddigital.com/science-tech/article/50444/1/ti...
Yet somehow the popular HN response is alt-right denial and dismissal of anything that remotely sounds "SJW" to them. Literally after The Intercept and Netzpolitik broke these stories to the public. Its not even in the realm of "wow are they doing this?" As much as it is in the realm of "How much of this are they doing and how much do we not know?"
“TikTok users posting videos with these hashtags are given the impression their posts are just as searchable as posts by other users, but in fact they aren’t,” the report said. “In practice, most of these hashtags are categorised in TikTok’s code in the same way that terrorist groups, illicit substances, and swear words are treated on the platform.”
Its incredible to me that the oppression could not be more obvious, yet bigoted attitudes guarantee that some people will refuse to believe even what tiktok says. The fact that this company is grouping terrorists with queer and disabled people is completely and utterly inexcusable.
Also encouraging vaccinations isn't "propaganda" but sane and safe health policy.