Maybe it's trying to make a horrible shitty situation a little less bad.
There was zero right answer in this war. We don't have some corrupt cabal of leaders in our government and military. I can't recall a single American that didn't want to go into there after 911. Our soldiers have been stuck there putting their lives on the line to keep the house of cards from falling down. This power vacuum will disappear with another incredibly violent war after we leave. There will be zero way for the current government to maintain control. I don't see how it could possibly avoid becoming an isis like state that will lash out with more terrorism and I'm afraid this won't be the last time American boots will be in country.
> We don't have some corrupt cabal of leaders in our government and military
You have patriots, who are far more dangerous because they believe they're doing the right thing. And a certain amount of cabal willing to lie about how much of a threat Iraq was.
For the Iraq war. The Afghanistan war had very little resistance as things like the Congressional approval happened on September 14th giving the military a blank check to "capture the criminals."
I was talking about Afghanistan, but it's a similar situation in Iraq. The justification for the Iraq war is bs, but the situation in both countries is similar right now. There are weak governments that were allies that we are hanging out to dry. Our soldiers feel horrible about leaving the people they fought besides to die from the onslaught that is coming. The enemy is battle hardened and without mercy. I feel horrible for all involved but it seems like it will be worse in Afghanistan. I can't imagine being a father to a daughter who wanted a bright future for their child right now. They have at most, one year of schooling left before those schools are snubbed out harshly. Our previous allies that fought along side our soldiers have an even more grim future. There will be a stasi like hunt and subsequent execution of thousands for those that helped us.
What would you do when you fought alongside people that became your brothers? Would you betray them and abandon them to this horrible fate?
It's easy to call them useful idiots sitting thousands of miles away and safe. They are not dumb, they see the reality on the ground that we are not privy to.
At the same time, our soldiers are dieing. It's ugly whatever route we take and I don't know the least horrible decision that should be made.
That's not really true. It was very true about Iraq, but almost nobody (I assume there are a couple quakers out there somewhere) was against the action in Afghanistan.
The Taliban were widely recognized as the absolute worst, and sheltering Bin Laden was just icing on the cake. This was a close to national unity as anything will ever be.
I don't know about America. But back then we had huge demonstrations every weekend in Austria trying to get attention from the US government to rethink their action.
The public, here in central Europe, was and still is mainly against the US invading countries for their own means.
(This is actually part of the reason so many of my generation learned to hate America for their actions in a early age)
Those were very likely for the Iraq war. The Afghanistan war happened too quickly to garner any major opposition, and though there was some opposition I'm not seeing four weeks of huge Austrian demonstrations listed on Wikipedia at least. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_war_in_Af...
And I feel like holding massive anti-US protests in the weeks after 9/11 would have been a huge talking point in the last twenty years.
Anti-Iraq was even bigger for sure. And I am not sure they happened directly after 9/11 or only months later. But the sentiment was obvious, many people do still not believe the official narrative and can't excuse starting a war for a wrong narrative. Pretty sure demos startet after the first related WikiLeaks leaks?
On a side note I would be surprised if Wikipedia had a line for a few hundred young lefties demonstrating in a basically forgotten country like austria. When I say huge, I mean relatively, Austria ain't big. But there should be Media and pics somewhere I guess.
>Pretty sure demos startet after the first related WikiLeaks leaks?
That's like a decade after the war started.
Even in the US, by the time of the Iraq War a significant chunk of the population had turned anti-Afghanistan war, but resistance was very limited in the month between September 11th and the start of the war.
Sorry but the OP is right. Everyone in Europe was shocked and very, very angry that the US attacked yet another country that wasn't a threat to it and had nothing to do with 9/11.
Even today, I personally have no idea what the US went to do in Afghanistan. Iraq, at least, had oil. But, Afghanistan? What was the point?
I think you have your history very mixed up. The connection between Afghanistan and 9/11 was very clear to everyone.
(And in case you genuinely don't know: the Taliban were openly harboring Al Qaeda including Bin Laden. The US ordered them to either hand him over or allow the US to pursue him. They refused. So, the US eliminated the Taliban.)
> You must not have been paying attention. There were a hell of a lot of us, and we weren't quiet. Or wrong.
What? How old are you? Where did you live when it happened? What community or group was against striking back after 911? How can you even say you were "right" when the rest of the country didn't agree with you?
> Oh, of course not. We'll have left behind whole shipping containers full of the things.
Do you really think Afghanistan won't be the new isis state? The government is weak and one of the mightiest militaries in the world couldn't help defeat the taliban. The taliban is battle hardened and it seems incredibly doubtful they won't retake the country. If you disagree, please explain how you envision a happy war free Afghanistan that won't
breed enemies of the United States after we leave.
Genuine question: are there any concrete proofs that the intervention reduced terrorism? Not that their absence would prove the opposite of course, but do we have any hard data or something?
That’s complicated. The Taliban were also generally opposed to terrorism, though they define terrorism a bit differently given their extreme social positions. This resulted in a large rift between the Taliban and Al Qaeda.
You could better answer the question yourself with a study of recent history in the region.
Fairly sure the intervention predated an increase in terrorist acts both locally and internationally. Whether those are related or not is hard to show.
It's an ugly complicated mess of a war that will more than likely go on long past our lives. It is highly debatable and probably unknowable if it was the right call in the long run. But I'd have to assume the war kept the terrorists busy at least for a little while. They also more than likely would not have stopped if we made no response.
There was zero right answer in this war. We don't have some corrupt cabal of leaders in our government and military. I can't recall a single American that didn't want to go into there after 911. Our soldiers have been stuck there putting their lives on the line to keep the house of cards from falling down. This power vacuum will disappear with another incredibly violent war after we leave. There will be zero way for the current government to maintain control. I don't see how it could possibly avoid becoming an isis like state that will lash out with more terrorism and I'm afraid this won't be the last time American boots will be in country.