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"My standard for sexism is: would it be OK to do it if the situations were reversed?"

This might not actually be a good test because, as a society, we have different social standards for men and women. While Kagan's actions could be considered "masculine", most likely if a woman did something similar it would be considered "bitchy".

Because we use different words and standards, it's really hard to truly reverse the situation.

By the way, your example indicates that you're confusing sexism and misogyny -- you could debate whether his position is misogynistic (expresses a hatred for women) but it seems fairly likely that it's sexist (makes some women feel uncomfortable in a situation because of their gender).




This is such bullshit. Why would it be "masculine" to insult women? Discussions of this kind (gender issues) quickly seem to deteriorate into complete fantasy land.

To be sure there are probably circles of men who think it is cool to insult women. Likewise there are circles of women who think it is cool to insult men. That doesn't generalize to the whole population, though. For example, I am male and I don't think it is cool to insult women. Why don't you generalize from me to the whole male population of planet earth, rather than generalizing from some bonehead?

There are all sorts of fucked up people, in fact. To generalize from them is just useless.

If I had been to that particular talk, I would just have made a mental note to avoid that speaker in the future. I probably would have left early, too - what is the point in sitting through a crappy presentation? Maybe even send a note to the organizers so that they can adjust their speaker line up for the next conference.


Having one man insult women doesn't necessarily generalize to the entire male population, but what is damning is when a man insults women in a public setting under the assumption that nobody will criticize him for it (implicit acceptance).


I don't think it is implicit acceptance. People probably leave during the speech, they nod off, or they avoid the speaker in the future. Maybe they should immediately jump onto their chairs and shout "foul", but I am not really sure that would be desirable.

Frankly, I want to have a choice if I go to such a conference to concern myself with topics that interest me. Maybe some other time I'll go to a conference about women's rights. At any milliseconds there are a zillion unfair things going on in the world, we can not deal with them all.

In this particular situation, for example, I wouldn't see anybody who was hurt directly. Like if I saw somebody beating up somebody else on stage, I might be moved to step in and stop the beating. But here - even if some women's feelings were hurt, I figure they could just leave the room without my assistance. So it doesn't seem worth the trouble to make a fuss about it.


Realistically, I probably would have the same reaction, but just as a thought experiment, what if it was something similar with an off-color (not necessarily outright offensive) slide regarding someone's ethnicity or sexual orientation? I feel like it would be comparable.


Thinking you are never sexist is like thinking you never have boogers hanging out of your nose.

Sure, you never see it... that's makes it easy to pretend it's not happening. But anyone with eyes below your nose level (most likely women) definitely sees it.

And your only defense is developing good rapport with those people, and giving them reason to believe that you'll respond graciously when they point it out.


Give an example. I must admit I am at a loss for words. What should I feel guilty for, and to whose benefit?

Everybody faces prejudice. For example I face prejudice because I work with computers. I don't think that warrants inflicting a huge guilt trip on the rest of the world.


> it's sexist (makes some women feel uncomfortable in a situation because of their gender).

We have a different definition of sexism. If a person feels uncomfortable, it does not necessarily mean they are being discriminated against.


Let's turn it around to the best of our ability (by looking for something that has a similar social effect and not merely the same behavior) and test that definition: A lot of men feel extremely uncomfortable because of their gender when women mention menstruation or menopause. Are women who talk about those topics sexist?

(I'm not saying it's a good thing to talk the way Noah did. But I don't feel that "momentarily inconsiderate of others' feelings" is the same thing as "sexist." One is a bad behavior that could come from any number of reasons and the other is a deep-seated mindset.)




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