Found out it was psychosomatic. My belief that my pain was caused by structutal damage reinforced the pain. The cause of the pain seemed to rather be a combination of stress, fear, and supressed emotions. When I started working on these areas the pain resolved. It comes back now and then but now I know it's my mind messing with me so I just resolve what's stressing me at the moment and just keep using my hands and then it goes away. I dealt with this shit for years and it severely restricted my life so it's kind of a miracle to be rid of it.

I recommend reading "healing back pain" by Sarno which talks about this phenomena. The book is mainly about back pain but it applies to all kinds of psychosomatic pain. There's also a free forum with free guides and support from others who have dealt with the same: https://www.tmswiki.org/forum/

In particular the success subforum is very inspirational as it contains posts from peoole who have resolved all kinds of pain syndroms that they originally thought were caused by structural injuries (including rsi).

I feel like a shill writing this and I remember I thought people talking about this theory back in the day were paid shills. But I promised myself after I got rid of this huge burden due to the psychosomatic approach I would let people know about it no matter how many downvotes I get.

I mentioned this in another comment, but I tried reading all of Sarno's books and it didn't really work for me. I 100% believe the stories though, and based on another comment, I may give it another shot, this time going beyond just the books. Do you have any TMS-specific recommendations that helped you cure your pain? Thanks!

Work out and lift weights.

But ergonomically speaking I use a Kinesis Advantage 2 keyboard and a Logitech MX Vertical mouse.

You may also need a long break to heal, which might not be an option if you're American. An engineer from Germany I know had something like 4 or 6 weeks off work when diagnosed with RSI and nobody batted an eye.

> Work out and lift weights.

Also take care to exercise important muscle groups for your job. Core strength helps a ton in sitting, and in my experience forearm adds a lot of stability to wrist and typing motions.

I would sometimes get tennis elbow (not sure why..) from desk work, and a specific type of releasing exercise was almost a light switch for the pain. So not just building muscle, but touching the right muscles in the right way i imagine is important as well.

If you're curious, specifically i use a type of rubber-ish solid tube that is designed for you to twist it. You can twist to build muscle in one direction, but you can also reverse your grip and "untwist" it under pressure. This tension-ed untwisting motion is what massively helped my elbow RSI, like a light switch, it was sort of insane.

That experience really solidified the idea to me that exercise is the foundation to damn near everything. Ie Physical Rehabilitation over reactive fixes like bone alignment / etc. Yea, posture is important, but i don't think posture can fix a body that isn't capable of supporting itself.

I got the MX Vertical, K860 keyboard, All33 Chair and it has been amazing for the pandemic. At work I had crappy Dell keyboards, a basic mouse, and a horrible chair. It's night and day. Changed my monitor from a crappy monitor to a high DPI monitor and it's so clean and great for your eyes.

Granted, all this can be alleviated by working out and sunlight. Get those bands and just work out. Nothing beats it.

See what works best for you here. I have had the same problem for 15 years and weight training actually made it worse. My worse time was when I was coding, weight training and playing bass guitar in a band each week for a long period. I would get home and my hands would be numb and stiff like hooks. I think the fact I was not giving my hands and wrists recovery time made it worse. I’m much better now that I have kids and zero time for a band or occasional gym visits.

My best advice. Try everything and see what helps. I’ve tried every keyboard under the sun. I even bought a datahand keyboard. The Kinesys Advantage is amazing. I have one. It made the biggest difference for me. I cannot use a mouse anymore not even for 10 mins. I use a touchpad now but in the beginning a Wacom touch pen (you can configure it to work in mouse mode) was the only thing I could use. Try these things and see what works.

A physio also gave me some writs stretching exercises to do each day which helped a little.

Biggest things that helped me when coding?...

Kinesys advantage keyboard

Wacom Bamboo tablet and pen (with mouse mode). It’s odd a first but seriously try this if you can’t use a mouse.

Highly recommend trying this.

Ps. Take it seriously and don’t just plough through it. It might never go away fully but you can avoid it getting so bad it affects your career.

I did basically the same.

The most intense symptoms (I even had partially numb fingers) went away after visiting the orthopedic who realigned my back. (You know, where they pull up your shoulders and then click, click, ...) I tried to move around more while realizing sitting still is the worst thing one can do for the back even if it might be less painful for the back/arms in some moments. Also I switched to an ergonomic setup and switched from vi to a more boring editor.

Then I started meditating regularly, slowed down on my job and quit it a few weeks after. Also I did a pause of around 2 months and at the same time I started doing swimming and parkour (1-2x a week). My new job was far less stressful and as it turned out it was okay to ditch the ergonomic setup. Now, years later, my back/arms/hands are better than ever.

Ergonomic keyboard and switch to trackball helped a lot, but exercise helped the most. I find it doesn’t even have to be weightlifting or anything with the hands. It’s more about the cardiovascular workout. Running and cycling have improved my rsi significantly.

There might be something to this. I quit lifting weights when I cancelled my gym membership right before the pandemic started. But I did notice a difference in how good my hands/wrists felt during the ~12 months I was lifting.

I’ve trained and raced bikes for years and I’m currently on a break from cycling and now I’m running 5-6 days a week instead.

I’m eventually going to build a gym in my garage because I felt so dang good overall during the period I was lifting that I’m now convinced it’s part of the key to keeping my body from falling apart as I age.

Did the mouse make a big difference for you? I came across it recently and was considering getting it as my wrist has been getting pretty creaky. I tried putting my hand in that position on my desk and it certainly feels quite relaxing, but I have no idea whether it'll actually feel more comfortable in regular long-term use.

Fwiw, I'll never go back to a regular mouse and I don't suffer from RSI. Vertical mice and trackballs are _just_ better ergonomically. My wrists never feel fatigued and it's very relaxing.

Can i strongly recommend the 'massive' trackballs rather than the smaller ones, they seem to be easier to pick up and be accurate with quickly.

I think so, but I’ve been using a vertical mouse and a Kinesis keyboard for so many years now that I’m not even sure what’s really helping any more :)

Exercise is really a major factor. A lot of IT people don't do it, I don't, but it's vital. The times I've dabbled, its made a world of difference.

After just a week of lifting weights or running, you feel 200% better and it just gets better. Thoroughly recommend it. Going back for another beer though. Damn this covid forcing me to play wizardry 8.

> numbness and tinging on the ulnar side of both hands and wrists

That's not RSI! That's from posture! This happened to me when I worked on the couch with my laptop on my lap. And to my friend. And to my mom. And to my other friend. It's always the same source, the ulnar nerve root coming out of C8-T1, always the same problem, the angle of the neck (looking down) and the set of the shoulders (typically because the elbows aren't supported in a neutral position), and the fix is always the same, use a proper height desk with a proper height monitor and proper height arm rests.

I think you're onto something. My problem is that I had horrible posture, no ergonomic setup or true desk, didn't work out, and paid no attention to it all until recently. About 6 months ago, I started using a proper ergonomic setup (Herman Miller chair, standing desk, etc.) and I notice that the pain becomes less intense when I'm at my desk or walking around. It gets worse when I sit on the couch or lie in bed with my back propped up (reading or computing).

Did you have to do anything apart from changing your desk setup in order to recover? What type of medical imagery was needed (if any) to be diagnosed with your C8-T1 problem? Thanks for your help!

So the problem is called C8 radiculopathy, and it basically just means a pinched or inflamed nerve at or near the base of the neck. You can search the web for diagrams of where the nerves are that cause pain where you've described. Look at the root of the ulnar nerve.

> What type of medical imagery was needed (if any) to be diagnosed with your C8-T1 problem? Thanks for your help!

Most likely imagery won't show anything because usually it's just strain and not something broken, overgrown, or torn. But if there's a more persistent physical cause like abnormal bone growth or a herniated disc, then an MRI of the base of your neck should be able to show it (though often herniated discs don't bulge abnormally in typical imaging postures so that's iffy too).

> Did you have to do anything apart from changing your desk setup in order to recover?

The first time it happened to me I managed to make it go away after two weeks of refusing to use my laptop on my lap.

There are certain exercises that may help like reverse fly where you squeeze your shoulderblades together hard and other things, but go slowly because DOMS pain will make nerve inflammation worse instead of better.

If someone recommends epidural cortisone injections, ignore them and go somewhere else. Those are expensive, dangerous, and painful placebos.

I started regularly lifting weights a few years ago. After a few weeks, all the muscle and joint pain in my body disappeared completely.

Same. I heard a famous entrepreneur say on a podcast recently that every time he felt a bit of pain he knew it'd been because he hadn't hit the gym for a few days... 100%. I get back in the workout routine and it's all good.

On a positive note it's just insanely effective at getting me to exercise. I just have _no choice_ so I know I'll be regularly exercising so long as I'm still using computers.

This is somewhat similar to how I tend to exercise when I go hard at it. If I'm feeling down or I'm feeling dull pains I intensely workout and always feel better afterwards. I like to imagine I'm pushing the pain out with a rewarding kind.

I keep hearing this! Can you recommend some weight lifting exercises that you think may have helped most?

if you're just starting out, you wanna start with the top 5 compound exercises. I'd recommend "starting strength" by mark ripetoe. There's thousands of exercises you can do at the gym but you'll get 80% of the output with just these 5 exercises.

squat

Hits everything from the legs to the core to the upper back.

deadlift

alos hits everything as well as the pulling muscles so it really builds your back

pullup

works your upper back muscles and arms

pushups/dips

works your arms and chest

plank

the ultimate ab excercise.

Honestly, the best advice I can give is to hire a personal trainer for the first few sessions. Get one that knows strength training specifically to watch yoru form and make sure you have that mastered BEFORE you start lifting any serious weight

BACKSTORY:

so a few years ago I sheared my knee. I could not walk more than a few yards before my knee started grinding. I had resigned myself to eventually need a knee replacement. a few months of working with a personal trainer on the squat fixed that. Its like the injure never happened at this point.

Upper body and core. At home, pull ups and chin ups and sit ups are the best. At the gym, weight machines isolating key muscles.

It's not rocket science - if your back is stuff and hurts, generally working out your back would have been a good preventative measure (but obv be careful with injuries etc!)

Highly recommend yoga too.

Got a Keyboardio Model 01 [1], switched to the Dvorak keyboard layout, and started doing exercises, all at the same time.

I also recently switched from GNOME to the keyboard-centric awesome window manager [2].

[1]: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/keyboardio/the-model-01... [2]: https://awesomewm.org/index.html

I switched from i3 to GNOME because I found it so keyboard friendly and simple. I never needed Fibonacci ratio sized windows in practice, just workspaces and easy window sizing and switching. What do you find that awesome has over GNOME?

I actually found the opposite of you, that GNOME is less keyboard friendly. I guess each person is different...

What do you mean the ulnar "side"? The ulnar nerve controls several fingers on each hand. The middle and ring. iirc. I started getting that tingling and numbness in my fingers, and it kept getting worse and worse until one day on the train I was thinking "ok, something is REALLY wrong" and went to a specialist my general referred me to.

He agreed that it seemed my ulnar neve was getting pinched by my elbow, most likely (i had Google around, and while I don't think googling equals an experienced doctor, I told him my symptoms, what I read up on, and asked if he thought it was something like that. To my surprise he agreed after some tests and asking me questions).

He told me to start sleeping in a manner where I couldn't curl or fold my arms. He even advised taking a small pillow, wrapping it around my arm, and ducttapping it, so I couldn't bend my elbow at night even if I wanted to!

I didn't do that, but I did pay more attention to how I sleep, and kept my arms naturally straight (relaxed) when I slept. I did have an extra pillow, and I'd lay that across my arm, which was enough. Anytime I woke up and my arm was folded, I reextended it.

After a few weeks of that, and the pain and tingling not growing, it started greatly reducing and went away. I still try to sleep with my arms as straight as possible.

I had issues with my right hand (which as a professional bassoon player is not great). I struggled with it for years, and it came and went. Then I started swimming. I did a front crawl course, loved it and started swimming 3-4 times every week, and after about 6 months my hand pain went away.

Plus I lost weight and had to buy new pants because they started filling off. And my shirts became too tight because I suddenly got some shoulders. Best problem I have ever had.

I interviewed someone with crazy RSI and debilitating hand issues (they had to use voice control software). They cured their RSI and you can listen to the interview here and also read their success story.

"I had 10 years of 24 hour a day, 7 days a week chronic pain in my fingers, wrists, forearms, arms, elbows from typing, mousing, and using a computer up until 12/12/2008 as a computer science student and as a software engineer."

source: http://www.tmshelp.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5301 (interview is at bottom, soundcloud)

================================

Also see the "Seattle Repetitive Injury Support Team" site > http://www.satori.org/rist/, who claim:

"After many years of meeting to discuss treatment and coping approaches, share stories and ideas, listen to invited speakers and discuss good ergonomics, we are excited to announce that we think we have finally found a cure for most RSI cases! We know that sounds too good to be true, but please read on."

================================

Lastly, read these RSI success stories on the same technique: https://www.tmswiki.org/ppd/Repetitive_Strain_Injuries_-_RSI

This is a crazy journey, and it is worth knowing about.

Lastly, if you end up going this route, a podcast called "Tell Me About Your Pain" by pain psychologist Alan Gordon and neuroscientist Alon Ziv is a solid entry point on what to do next. It is an educational mini-series that explain what is going on in a build-up kinda way.

I've looked into TMS and read all of Sarno's books. I believe in it. I believe it's real. I believe all the stories and 5-star reviews. I want this to be the answer, but sadly it hasn't worked for me. :(

For what it is worth, I didn't get that far with Sarno's books either, and I read three of them. It turns out I needed much more specific direction and the work that Alan Gordon (TMS Wiki courses), Dr. Schubiner (Unlearn your pain) and Curable have been gold for me in the specificity that I needed. It took years for me (neck, upper back & lower back) and finally with significant therapy, journaling, and Curable I have had very good success and am 95% pain free but still not 100%, and most of us here are perfectionists, so I want 100% pain free.

It might be worth it to do a consult with Dr. Schubinar who does video consults now (because of COVID) or the Pain Psychology Center (Alan Gordon's center) does sessions too. I am working through the Curable video workshops and found them key too (I am confident they will get me to the last 5%, they really clearly present what is going on).

Wish you the best!

Wow, this gives me hope! I'm willing to try anything at this point, and will probably give TMS theory another shot as I fit the prototypical TMS patient description to a T. Thanks!

Nice, I was in the boat of trying almost anything too!! I had been to over 8 different physical therapists, massage therapists, chiropractors etc over the past 10 years spending well over 10-20K, hundreds of hours in travel and treatment (lost time) and nothing really stuck. The days of any _new_ pain are 100% over now, including turning my neck the wrong way and having a week long "can't turn my head" situation.

I feel like I have "found it" finally, and it has been at least 3 years since I read my first Sarno book.

Minimize sugar intake.

Over the previous months of September-December I binged-ate donuts multiple times a week, partly due to lockdown depression. I developed numbness and tingling in my arms & wrists. [I'm young in mid 20s].

Cut sugar since the new year and no more tingling/numbness.

I second the sugar intake point. I had tingling and numbness in my feet, and I have noticed it can get triggered by eating sugary foods. If I eat something super sugary like a bag of skittles it is immediate!

I feel like I've conquered mine. I can primarily thank the Kinesis Advantage2 keyboard, it's basically the only reason I can type now. I have no pain using it, and I honestly get a shooting pain every time I switch over to my laptop's keyboard.

One more thing is getting up and walking around for 5 minutes every 30min. We basically sit ourselves into these problems, and getting up is a helpful solution. I even knock out a bunch of 5-minute chores in a day thanks to this.

Finally, find some 10min yoga sessions to do in the morning. Do 'em a few times a week. They'll stretch your hands out in ways you wouldn't expect.

Oh, and smartphones suck to hold, find the tiniest one possible. iPhone SE is killer for this

I agree with everything, I love my Advantage 2. I've been using it for about half a year and almost all pain my hands has gone away.

Additionally I use Dvorak which I find to put less strain on my hands.

And paired with your advice to walk is this: wear a hoodie or any long-sleeved garment. I think increasing blood flow to my hands has helped a lot.

Others mentioned lifting weights — +1 to that but let me add something I haven't seen mentioned yet: rowing.

Rowing is, in my opinion, the perfect anti-programming exercise.

  - you unfurl your body instead of hunching over, stretching it in a way counter to the usual strains programming creates 
  
  - you exercise your back, especially lower back, giving you support muscles for good posture

  - you also exercise your forearms, building strength to support your wrists

I've been rowing consistently for about 20 years now, and have never once had wrist or lower back pain, despite programming professionally.

Hey! Former rower here! ;) I haven't rowed for several years and only just started again about 5 months ago. I was hoping it would help, but any improvement has been marginal at best.

Hard to row without having a boat, unless of course you're talking about rowing machines. Which do you recommend?

If you can do it on the water even better, but obviously that's harder to arrange. The basic physiological benefits come from either IMO, and 95% of the time I've been rowing on a machine.

P.S. If I've misunderstood your question and you're asking what machine specifically, I use a Concept 2 I bought 8 years ago but only because that was what my gym was using and I figured might as well match it at home. Nowadays there is a huge variety of machines to choose from, and the basic physiological benefits are going to be the same for all of them.

Mine went away when I switched to a Kinesis Advantage 2 keyboard. It took some getting used to, but I took heed of the advice here that it would be worth it and it was. Also, I use a Logitech MX ERGO trackball which I really like.

The best I can offer is mediocre bro science. I stopped using a computer or any kind of device outside of working hours and (as my condition allowed) I lifted weights. Eventually my grip strength was solid and my pain was minimal. Then i took up brazilian jiu jitsu which requires significant grip strength in a bunch of angles. Fundamentally i believe that thoughtfully only using a keyboard during work and gaining significant grip strength over time gave me a much bigger buffer against RSI.

I had a very bad case of this condition. After a lot of searching, I came across many common themes for solutions. There is one primary solution - stretching out your neck.

The muscles in your neck become tight due to keyboard work, and the pain radiates to your wrists. It’s often misdiagnosed as carpel tunnel or similar.

As I searched for info I came across a litany of temporary solutions that scared me: ice, anti-inflammatories (some people popping many ibuprofen or similar per day), wrist braces, expensive surgery.

When I started stretching, I could barely move my head to touch my ear to my shoulder. My neck was incredibly stiff. Do this test yourself.

Stretch your neck out, multiple times per day. 30 seconds or more per stretch, and there are 4 really core stretches. There is a set of stretches I can share via PDF in a PM. I should put them on a website or similar.

In addition, take many micro breaks throughout the day - relax your arms to your side, let your shoulders come back. Just let the blood flow. These micro breaks can be only 15 or more seconds.

Other things people suggest here can help - ergonomics (chairs or desks, mice, speech-to-text programs), working out, etc.) but in my opinion the source is tight muscles in your neck.

I learned all this from Rick Mahaffey of Peninsula RSI in the Bay Area. His practice is not there anymore, but he changed my life and I’m sure the life of many other keyboard workers with his simple and cheap method of stretches. For a while he was a go-to for local FAANG insurance companies when workers had RSIs.

> There is a set of stretches I can share via PDF in a PM. I should put them on a website or similar.

How should we PM you, HN doesn't offer a messaging functionality

The PDF you mentioned would be much appreciated!! My email is in my profile. Thank you!

Except for occasional flare ups, mine is pretty much gone and at worst was pretty debilitating (eg hurt to pick up a glass of water). I think all of these do a lot:

- Exercises and stretches from the pdfs here: https://orthoinfo.aaos.org/. Finding some that feel kinda good and then doing them a few weeks worked better than suggestions from doctors. I do the exercises as part of my warmup for my normal 3x a week workout and do the stretches at the end.

- Use a stylus for my phone at all times. Just the type that is a ballpoint pen with a rubber tip on the cap. Also a pop-socket to hold it with.

- Cut down on bike riding for the sake of my wrists.

- Play mostly console games, less phone and PC b/c consoles have more ergonomic controllers.

- Fasting. I do at least a 24hr fast every week and that always works at least temporarily. I have several problems related to inflammation and for some people this helps a lot.

Geekiest bonus suggestion: use XFCE as a desktop and configure all the hotkeys so you can do things like move windows around with the keyboard.

Switching from using the mouse to using a laptop touchpad did wonders for my Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Well, the touchpad plus use of various soft and hard wrist braces. I now have something similar to De Quervain's Tenosynovitis, and I find the thumb braces help when the pain gets too bad. Again, soft braces when it’s just mildly annoying, and hard braces for when it really hurts.

EDIT: The thing I will add here is that my thirty-plus years with RSI have taught me, is that it seems to be a deeply personal issue, and what works for me may not work for you, and vice-versa.

You’ve got to do what works for you, and good medical assistance will involve going through the list of various different things that might help in the order of how likely they are to help and how much they are likely to help — and if one thing doesn’t work for you, then move on to the next. And if one person or school of treatment isn’t working for you, then you should seek out alternatives that will.

Good luck, and good health!

Kept my keyboard but switched it from QWERTY to Colemak. Two weeks cold turkey to get back up to acceptable typing speed.

People going to doctors and buying all kinds of specialized gear that is supposed to help them are doing it wrong. Your posture is causing you to get injured - curing your injuries will not stop them from happening again.

Make sure your chair seat is in proper height (whole area of both feet are touching the ground).

Make sure your table is in proper height (your elbow should for a right angle when bent and resting on the table)

Learn to sit up straight (both elbows on the desk, belly touching the edge of the desk)

Make sure your screen is at proper height (top of screen at eye level)

If your hands are hurting from leaning on the desk, try to use a gaming mat - you can buy an XXXL sized one for your whole desk, I personally use two large mousemats, one for mouse and one rotated 90 degrees under the keyboard.

Wearing warmer clothes on your arms and hands can also help, try handwarmer gloves or long sleeves.

I used an ergonomic keyboard, unfortunately it's not on the market anymore (I should have bought several :)). Anyway, after using that for I think 5 years, I was very conscious when typing (on a laptop). The thing is for the hands to be relaxed -- once you have that, RSI will slowly go away.

I started lifting dumbbells and doing press-ups to try to build strength since I'm in my 40s. Unfortunately I developed medial epicondylitis (golfer's elbow), possibly because I have narrow wrists. I had to completely stop anything that flexes my biceps or pectorals, and a year of bored lockdown eating has made me flabby, heavy and frustrated. Recently though, I've been using a combination of trigger point massage and stretches, which seem to be helping so far. I'm hoping to get back to being able to lift weights and hang from my hanging bar. And lift up my toddler without wincing.

Have you talked to a hand surgeon?

I did, after going through the months of therapy and various treatments. He told me that he sees this all the time - that some people (~10%) just have variations in how their tendon sheaths form in their wrists. For most people, it never matters. For people who use their hands a lot, it does. If you hit that Venn diagram of being in the 10% of the population with this problem and also heavily use your hands... therapy isn't going to help. You need surgery.

Now, does this apply to you? Maybe not - it is not the typical problem. But if you have tried everything else, ask a wrist/hand surgeon.

I saw three hand surgeons, all extremely well-regarded, but who ultimately didn't know what was going on with my hands. It's been super frustrating for me because they're loathe to even acknowledge the problem. It's either "all looks to be okay structurally" or "I'm stumped". That being said, even though these were extremely well-regarded surgeons, I didn't feel much confidence during the visits. I didn't get the sense that they really wanted to get to the bottom of it and help me, and the visits felt rushed. I have an appointment scheduled with a physiatrist in a few weeks--a hand therapist recommended that I get my upper spine/neck checked out in case the pain I'm feeling is referred nerve pain that originates in the spine/neck somehow. Crossing my fingers that I can come to some resolution with this--I just want my life back.

I had a similar experience. Surgeons can be excellent at performing surgeries but very poor at diagnosing our understanding the myriad issues with ergonomics.

That's maybe a good thing. Surgery is a fairly drastic solution. I get the impression that a fair amount is psychosomatic - a lot of people mention Sarno's book. Personally a 10 day Vispassana meditation retreat has given me the best relief from chronically tense muscles from my wrist, under my arm and should blade and side. I guess it depends on the person.

This is probably the most stupid advice I can ever give someone so be warned. But for me it went away when I started to work with my laptop actually on my LAP, ut improved tons and just upright in a chair, no table whatsoever. Got a bit of neck pain in return but that was easier to deal with. My current theory is that it my arms were actually resting mostly on my knees with no actual kink in the wrist. the laptop a little further out on the knees tho. I have an air so its already pretty slim.

I dont use a mouse.

For me the arms where just in total relaxed position this way, but its probably the opposite what people advice :|

Uh i have a little experience with this. I was an intern for a few months as part of my computer science degree, and sitting at a desk very not suites for office work, caused my right hand to start hurtig and having issues with tingeling like you describe. What ultimately worked for me was minimizing mouse usage by stopping pc gaming, switched to console gaming instead and stretching primarily my neck and shoulders, that really worked wonders. I was tested if my arms/hands had any permanent nerve damage, and fortunately I had not. Let me know if you have any questions.

This book changed (saved?) my life. It came out a long time ago and while I seldom feel pain anymore, when I do I still do the stretches that helped the most (from memory as the book has been passed around). More effective than any PT I tried.

Conquering Carpal Tunnel Syndrome and Other Repetitive Strain Injuries: A Self-Care Program (https://www.amazon.com/dp/1572240393/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_...)

I never had it super bad, but I started getting the signs: numbness, strange tingles, shooting pain and got one of these [0] from amz ~$20 (the green one), to help strengthen things and it helped (for me) immensely.

Oh.. I also got a trackball (Logitech MX Ergo Wireless Trackball Mouse).

[0] https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00066D6K4 "TheraBand FlexBar Resistance Bar For Improving Grip Strength, Tennis Elbow, Golfers Elbow, Tendonitis "

New account so this will get buried but BPC-157 injections worked for my tendinitis in both forearms. I wouldn't call it a cure because I have to continue using it occasionally or it comes back.

It may not help with your issue because that sounds more nerve related. I'm not a doctor.

I should also mention some other things I have tried or still use: Kinesis Advantage2, Vimium, i3/sway, better chair, better posture, neck/scalene stretches, less laptop keyboard use. It all probably helps in some small way.

Keyboard.io Model 01. Split, layers, thumb clusters, and standard tripod mounts to which I attached Gorilla Pods to get the perfect angles.

I was massively over using my pinkies with laptop modifier/arrow keys, and it's now all thumbs and home row. Took a while to come up with and learn my mappings in a Vim friendly way, but super worth it.

I had significant ulnar nerve pain. Tried PT, weightlifting, sleep braces, a (rather painful) nerve conduction study, stretches...nothing helped much, until the Keyboard.io.

Mine was pretty bad, in hands/elbows. Here is what fixed it for me. I don't have the pain much anymore, but I have to keep up with the following. For context, I'm in my late 20s and still code around 12hrs a day.

Note: nothing expensive. Also, what works for you will vary.

1. Bad posture in back/neck could noticeably make my hands numb. Got a strap on thing that helps remind me to sit straight.

2. I think my hands/arm muscles were very weak, and somehow that made things worse. This kind of thing helped A LOT: https://www.amazon.com/TOCO-FREIDO-Strengthener-Adjustable-R...

It hurt a little at first, but after the first couple days things felt noticeably better with a tool like this. Note - I'm not a doctor, don't injur yourself...

3. To help posture, a little stand to put my feet on. This does wonders.

4. Sustainable schedule. I don't touch a keyboard on Saturdays, or Thursday nights.

5. Eight hours of sleep to let the body heal. Disciplined sleep schedule.

6. Games like CSGO are really bad contributors to RSI, so I cut down time on this (only couple games a week).

7. For some reason, stressful or work I hate doing makes RSI MUCH worse. So, try put yourself in a position to do things you enjoy.

8. Split keyboard. Stationary ball mouse. The mouse is a big one.

9. Monitor AT EYE LEVEL and close to you. I had my monitor far away with like 13px font like everyone else. This meant I was leaning, ruining my neck, and pinching/straining nerves.

10. Look at piano players. They float their arms. Everyone suggests resting your arms flat on your arm wrests. This seemed to cause a pain to go up my arms and into my wrists. Typing with floating arms feels much better, but I have to switch it up to prevent strain.

All in all, it's a bunch of little stuff I was doing wrong for a long time, and I caught up with me. I hope someone finds this helpful. I did get a nice chair, but this didn't seem to help much, so I didn't list it.

If I go back to a laptop, the pain comes back in a day, so I try to avoid that.

Mine wasn't severe, but it was there well enough to annoy me and make me concerned. I had it for about one or two years.

Then I bought a Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro and an ergonomic mouse and it went away so quickly (like, nearly instant), that I now believe, that what I once read may be true: That the reason for RSI may be psychosomatic.

The interesting thing to note is, that I did not use an ergonomic keyboard/mouse in the last ten years and the RSI did not come back.

I had neuropathic pain in my hands and feet on the ulnar side. In my case it was gluten intolerance. It has cleared up after a month of strict gluten free dieting.

My first serious tech startup had me working 18 hour days, 7 days a week. The pain in my wrists became unbearable. I knew people who had surgery for this and it didn’t go so well. I was going to avoid this at all cost.

I took a couple of weeks off to design and build a custom ergonomic desk.

Within a week or two all pain was gone. I could work almost as long as I wanted to and be comfortable.

I also stopped using mice and moved to a thumb-operated trackball.

Look for ergonomic desks and chairs.

Apologies about not reading the comments, but the best I've found is the "airplane".

Hold your arms out 90 degrees and hold it for a minute. Fingers outstretched, hairy knuckles up. Stretch those finger tips like its Thomas Covenant.

Turn your hairy knuckles downside (apols if female, turn your non hairy knuckles down). Hold for a minute.

Rotate them so it's the reverse of whatever I said. Hold for 90 seconds.

Clench palms.

Get into gardening and another hobby, this one is bad.

I don't know if it was clinically RSI, but I had severe cramps in my forearms, shooting pains and tingling sensations from shoulders to hands for about 6 years. Switching from using MacOS laptops back to Gnome 3 (first an XPS 13, currently a Lenovo L14) fixed it in three weeks. I realised in retrospect I had been using Apple laptops for about 6 years. Never going back without a fundamental redesign.

Mobility work on all my joints (look up bodyweight warm up drills), and hanging off a pull up bar helped fix my RSI and shoulder impingement issues.

It is psychosomatic for me. It took me a lot of reading on the Internet trying to find causes and solutions to give into the possibility that the crippling pain I had could be such, but what helped me keep it at bay semi-permanently was truly realizing it.

It still comes back in a mild form when I read about it or discuss it, and your thread literally triggered pain on my left hand and forearm.

I didn't have RSI super bad, more of some early warning signs, however, I fixed them with a split keyboard. Ergodox moonlander in particular. Split keyboards typically seem to have a learning curve, especially reduced keyset ones with the thumb clusters. it's taken me about 3 months to really get comfortable with it but I have zero pain in my wrists, hands, etc...

I never had actual diagnosable RSI, but I was on my way there I think. I really highly recommend split ergonomic keyboards though. They run quite expensive but are worth it IMO. At entry level there's the Kinesis Freestyle (~$100) but the Kinesis Advantage ($350) is probably the best ergonomics you can get without going for a more niche enthusiast focused keyboard.

43 y/o now, got first carpal tunnel at 12 y/o. Only thing that fixed it was to

1) stop using mice and track pads (wacom pen and tablet for the win), It was the incessant clicking that did me in I think

2) focused physio, then followed up with regular (3x week minimum) yoga-ish stretching, and weight training.

Additionally it crept into my shoulders as tendinitis, solved the same way.

I use ring splints, including buddy splints between my pinkie and middle fingers and MCP splints with a chain to keep my thumbs from dislocating. For carpal tunnel issues I wear a rigid wrist brace, and I also tape my wrists with body tape.

My issues are due to ligament laxity though which is not common unless you lose the genetic lottery.

Bi-modal input worked for me. That’s a fancy way of saying use a trackball and a mouse at the same time. I would use the trackball to fling the cursor around the screen with my left hand, and the mouse to fine tune the aim with my right hand. I can only speak for myself, but this solved an acute pain in my wrist.

I had it really bad, numb fingers, shooting pain

- Switched from Emacs to Vim editing

- Started pair programming nearly full time

- Went from obese to normal BMI

- Got a Microsoft Natural 4000 split keyboard (after trying all the expensive mechanical ones that didn't help due to various bad angles)

- Standing desk almost every day with right height keyboard and mouse

Been pain free for almost a decade

Stop using a mouse, or use a vertical mouse (e.g. Evoluent). Move to a standing desk if you can.

These two things worked for me.

I bought a free-spinning flywheel mouse. Apparently scrolling through meters of documentation using a ratchet-like scrollwheel was putting too much strain on my muscles. Now I can quickly skim effortlessly with just a few flicks and breaks.

Also exercising helps for neck and shoulder areas.

I use a trackball and I go for 30 to 60 minute long cycle rides at least 3 times a week.

And while I'm cycling I make sure I shift the position of my hands on the handlebars at least once every 10 - 15 mins or so.

I have a road bike, so I try and also 'ride on the drops' if that makes sense?

Yoga (traditional Indian style, not western studio yoga) and specifically the Surya Namaskar / Surya Kriya routines. Took about 4-6 weeks before I felt normal and healthy.

I tried western studio yoga too, and while I enjoyed it, it did aggravate some of my pre-existing back injuries.

Again, more anecdote than science but juggling with slightly weighted balls works for me. It's also a fantastic activity to fit into my pomodoro five minutes as it gets me out of the chair and moving around to retrieve the juggling balls from under my desk.

I had the same thing, I switched hands using the mouse and developed it in my other hand. I switched to a trackball, it persisted. I switched to a Wacom tablet and it went away. I used a pen and tablet for over a decade afterwards and it never came back.

Switched to a Dvorak keyboard layout, although I did so before it got chronic (meaning pain without typing), on an ergonometric keyboard. Also started using the mouse with the left hand, despite having (a fairly strong) right-hand affinity.

Same. Long time Dvorak user for RSI reasons, though I switch between a left-handed mouse and a right-handed trackball.

Yes. I was in the same boat. Tried many things. Eventually,

I started exercising (very very infrequently) and trained myself to use the Mouse with the left hand.

It has been 15 years since then. I suck at a counterstrike now but avoided giving up on a career with computers.

My recommendation to find yourself a respected sports massage therapist. Most of these things have their root back in the shoulder blade and the whole arm needs a careful (and painful) massage to set things right. Ibuprofen helps too.

I think vitamin B6 is supposed to do it. I had symptoms in one wrist. Was pretty bad. I started taking a B Complex (B50) a couple times a day and it went away within a week. Some C would probably also help.

I started to get some slight wrist pain a while back - switched to a vertical mouse and started releasing my forearms with massage (they were getting tight) and that did the trick. Never had issues since.

A physiotherapist who specialised in treating pianists cured my RSI in six sessions.

30 years later you can still see odd bumps on my forearms, on the inside, but functionally I never has problems again.

She saved my career. Thank you.

Do you remember what exercises you did during those sessions?

Mine was never as severe as OP's. At a time when I started to feel some numbness, I took to doing wrist exercises with some 10lb(?) dumbells. That eliminated the numbness.

One thing that definitely helped was using dumbbells. Basically, any strength training should help.

Same thing with slight shoulder pains. I started using resistance bands and they went away.

Switching to a Split keyboard and Vertical mouse did it for me.

Exercise. Also works for back pain. Try gym + running.

A small improvement without exercise can be had by always wearing warm long sleeve shirts, which improves the blood flow or similar

I've been putting my keyboard right at the edge of the desk so my wrists have to be held in the air. Pain has is definitely reduced since last summer.

Find a job where you'll spend half of your time on pointless meetings, your wrists will have plenty of time to heal.

I was able to turn it around by cutting back/quitting other activities like weight lifting, bicycling, and piano.

Visited a chiropractor two times and it did wonders Got two full body massages Started using a vertical mouse

Yes, a Kinesis Advantage and carefully resting my hand when not using the mouse did it for me.

I've started wearing fingerless gloves. That solved the pain in my hands completely!

Interesting--do you attribute it to compression/stability, warmth, or something else?

I'm not sure. I didn't have really cold hands but I do think that the fact that my hands are kept warmer is helping the blood flow go more easily?

Any particular gloves you recommend?

Something like this what I'm using: https://www.bol.com/nl/p/vingerloze-handschoenen-grijs-voor-...

what fixed it for me was Yoga. a complete cure. aged 28 I was terrified I was going to lose livelihood not to mention perhaps the use of my fingers. aged 50 now, no troubles at all.

How many times a day are you icing your arms, elbows, and wrists?

I tried icing my hands/wrists and elbows every 3-4 hours for about 2 weeks, but it didn't help, so I stopped.

I've got nearly identical symptoms, and while it does come back now and then, I feel like I'm finally on top of it. I spent about a year trying various things, including exercise ( which actually only seemed to aggravate the symptoms rather than helping), various targeted stretches, physiotherapy, rest, ice, compression, wrist support braces, various ergonomic keyboards

What ultimately worked for me was a combination of massage therapy and self-massage.

I found that I had a large number of muscle knots/myofascial trigger points in my hands, forearms, tricep/biceps, shoulder, and back. Working with the massage therapist we slowly worked them out. In particular I found targeting the teres minor, which is a small muscle below the shoulder almost in the armpit, to be one of the breakthrough moments. Normally I have no back or shoulder pain, but when you find these knots and you start poking at them it can be incredibly painful.

I now have a home self-massage routine that I do regularly, especially if the tingling or any pain comes back, and it really helps. I use a combination of tools, including a lacrosse ball which I use against a wall on my forearms, back, and shoulders, and teres minor area, a Theracane massage stick, and a forearm massage tool from Armaid.com. The combination of the Armaid and Lacrosse ball really helped work the knots out of my forearms, and I highly recommend both of them.

A book I found useful was "The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook" by Claire Davies. I coupled this with a muscle anatomy book to help name/identify muscles to search in the Trigger Point book. The location of trigger points and symptoms as described in the Trigger Point book were uncannily accurate, it was literally spot on.

There are some good youtube videos, blogs, and websites of course. A few I found particularly helpful were the "Doug and Brad physiotherapy channel" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzVO9DU-bog), and the Painotopia youtube channel and corresponding website: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCwTpwn8lWZQ_lXfUPL1JZg/fea... https://www.muscle-joint-pain.com/ the Painotopia website is full of info, but I did find that I had to search around to find a bit.

Anyway, that's what worked and is working for me. I believe that stress, posture, and computer use, all contributed to developing these muscle knots, many of them near the ulnar nerve.

Everyone's pain, symptoms, and causes are different. Good luck! If you have any questions or want more info send a comment and you can drop me an email: my HN username @ gmail.com

Thank you so much for this thorough response! I have the Armaid and use it regularly, though I haven't done any focused massage therapy. Can I ask how you found your massage therapist?

Just through a quick google search and chose one that happened to be near the route I drove between work and my sons daycare. Her website was pretty generic and minimal, so I didn't have high hopes going in, but feel I lucked out as she had an undergrad degree in Kinesiology (or similar), and was a semi-professional cyclist, and had a lot of applied knowledge on anatomy, health, wellness, performance.

The keywords I would recommend looking for when looking for a masseuse would be myofascial release, trigger-point therapy, and active release therapy, though, your mileage may vary of course. I found the 30-45 minute appointments too short, and the 1.5 hour too long, but an hour was just right.

At first we just focused on the shoulders and back, but as I learned and researched more, as well as trying to find problem spots myself, we did a couple sessions on calves, buttocks (mainly piriformis), hands, neck/scalenes, forearms/elbow.

A few other things I didn't add in my first comment:

- I now always use a heating pad under my keyboard. The office spaces I've been working in the last decade are cold, industrial spaces, and the desk surface and hence my keyboard are always frigidly cold. I was developing arthritis-like symptoms (joint stiffness, I could feel the tendon 'clicking' in my pinky finger). I now use a generic heating pad under my keyboard and couldn't go back to not using it.

- Really paying attention to my wrist/arm posture when I sleep. I was a side sleeper and would flex my wrist under my chin when I slept which was putting additional stress on my wrist/forearm, I now really try to focus on relaxing my hands/arms when I sleep. This took some time, but I think it's one of those little things that paid off in the long run.

- I also have a Dr. Ho's Tens electro stimulation unit which I will use on my elbow, forearm, shoulders and back as needed. I find it helps. For the cost of ~1 massage appointment it seems worth while, even though reception/reviews/clinical proof of it's effectiveness is mixed.

I really appreciate this! How often did you visit the massage therapist? After looking at prices, I know many can be quite expensive, but if it works I'm fairly price insensitive.

I went about once a week for about 4 months

Good point about the wrist posture during sleeping. One doctor recommended wearing a wrist brace to sleep and that made a noticeable improvement.