Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

That's fine, but who is experiencing the state of that machine?

The state machine isn't the interesting part. The interesting part is that it is aware of itself.




OK, thanks for clarifying.

So, the problem is figuring out where the little man is inside of your head that is viewing the television screen that displays the images that go in through your eyes? And experiencing the hunger that comes from your stomach? The problem is finding the "I" in the sentence "I feel"? Where is "I"? Is that the problem?

If that is the problem, how about the answer "nowhere"? There is no "I".

I suspect you won't like that answer. It will feel unsatisfactory, is that your reaction? I don't have the same reaction, but I'd like to understand how it is for you?


> There is no "I". I suspect you won't like that answer.

If there is no "I", who is this "I" who suspects?


> If there is no "I", who is this "I" who suspects?

Good question.

It is a transient data structure.

Or a code structure if you prefer. A function that is executing. It can reference data.

When it is finished executing, it is disposed.


Ok, well all this stuff that you're coming up with is called the Hard Problem of Consciousness, and it's a big topic with many many words written on it. And it's what the thread parent was saying wasn't satisfactorily answered by the glib "just a feeling" answer.


> Where is "I"? Is that the problem?

Roughly, although I would say it's not so much "where" as "what".

Your answer that "there is nothing doing the experiencing" strikes me as obviously unsatisfactory, given that "I" experience things all day long every day, and "I" assume "you" do too.


Not all day long.

Right at the start of the day, when I've just finished sleeping, when I'm awake, but I haven't yet figured out where I am, or what day it is, or what I've got on today, or anything.

It's a lovely, easy feeling.

Then it hits me. I'm in my house on the east side. I've got that meeting today. My girlfriend is still angry at me.

In those few moments before all that data is mounted, there is no "I".

Do you experience that some mornings?


>> "I" experience things all day long every day, and "I" assume "you" do too.

> Not all day long. Right at the start of the day, when I've just finished sleeping, when I'm awake, but I haven't yet figured out where I am, or what day it is, or what I've got on today, or anything. It's a lovely, easy feeling. ... In those few moments before all that data is mounted, there is no "I".

You have just described the "I" of awareness perfectly! That is the true, indeed only, "I", the one who is aware of all the temporary, passing phenomena, whether they be thoughts, feelings, sensations, perceptions, etc.


Sure.

The fact that you're not conscious when you're not conscious doesn't prove that consciousness doesn't exist. On the contrary: the fact that you sometimes are conscious would seem to prove that consciousness does exist.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: