why am i getting downvotes? The hareidim ignore lockdown because their way of life is more important to them even then some deaths. Difficult for an outsider to understand. As for being anti vax, the vaccine is practically being forced down their throats. There will be a pushback (not that i agree). (and yes there could be more compliance, this is not the forum).

IMHO the downvotes have two reasons:

Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic.

Complaining or commenting about downvotes is not regarded well on HN.

> Calling the Haredim out on their behaviour is not anti-semitic.

I wonder if all the people who upvote this would take offense to the same statement applied to black people or whatever identity you want to swap in.

> would take offense to the same statement applied to black people or whatever identity you want to swap in

African Americans are not ignoring lockdown en masse. They are avoiding the vaccine, but that’s less problematic.

Israeli here. Their way of life is not threatened by a vaccine nor by lockdown. No more than any other citizen of israel. Their leadership still has ghetto mentality and sees the state as their enemy, so they always choose to go against it while crying Nazis. It doesn't matter that these so called Nazis are jews themselves.

This is the sort of mentality that 2000 years of diaspora creates. Their way of life is now defined by choosing to be the outcast, by wearing outcast uniform, by fearing and hating those that don't wear the uniform.

Their leadership is just aweful.

Israeli here as well. The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old.

Also, name calling authorities you don’t like is a not even a national sport, it’s a global one.

There’s a lot of good arguments against them, but they require more nuance.

> The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old.

I would say, less than 80 years old. In most normal countries this kind of behavior would be called "destructive totalitarian sect".

wanting to practice religion freely cannot be called "destructive" or "totalitarian". certainly no more than the blm riots in america. Those were certainly destructive and (imho)somewhat totalitarian in their desire to impose their agenda on everyone. The way i see it you have 2 options; either acknowledge you are wrong that normal countries wouldn't call this out as such, or explain why the blm riots are quantifiably more significant then freedom of religion.

Practicing religion freely is OK. Forcing members of the community to practice religion is not OK. Children are denied access to education beyond religious. They are forbidden to study math, English, Hebrew, they don't have access to internet. They are denied access to justice system and law enforcement. Sometimes they are denied necessary medical attention because of religious beliefs of the adults (for example, relative of my colleague got his shoulders dislocated at age of 5, his uncle didn't allow to call for MADA until Shabbat is over, so he screamed for hours until evening).

the cognitive dissonance is dizzying! first of all your relative is a fool who was practicing ignorance, not religion. Moving on, your whole argument is based on the preconceived notion that secularism is correct which clouds your judgement. Teaching your child your religion is called "forcing them"; whereas depriving them of any intellectual tools to help them find meaning in their lives is ideal. On to your allegations; Their whole education system is dependent on them knowing hebrew so i don't know what you meant by that. As for being deprived of internet; so what? Internet isn't a human right. Not allowed to learn english? Are you angry at your parents for not teaching you spanish? i can't actually find anything argument you make that isn't bs and factually incorrect. Anecdotal evidence non withstanding.

>The Haredim way of life is less than 250 years old. They will argue that its actually 3500 years old. Non hareidi judaism started .250 years ago with the haskala.

All vaccines are properly approved in the EU. There are millions of people vaccinated world wide. I'd say the sample size is big enough to be sure. And long term effects take effect not years after the vaccination, the carry on that long. So any long term effects manifest within weeks and months. And so far there haven't been any. At least not beyond what other vaccines and medication has.

I too can speak in an authoritative tone in complete generalities with no logic or reason.

Your comment actually creates more doubt about long term effects than it assuages. “There aren’t any long term effects. Because uh, there is no such thing as long term! Hah hah! It’s certainly not because they weren’t studied long enough.”

Try posting a study that backs up the nonsense you’re spouting because you don’t seem trustworthy.

Fair enough, I am no vaccine expert. So, what I got from sciency layman's info is the following: Long term effects are called that because the sustain for a long time, not because they kick in after a long time. Second take away, these effects for vaccines show themselves in the first couple of weeks and months. Given that we started trials almost a year ago and serious vaccination campaigns months ago with literally millions of people vaccinated, and still being monitored under Phase 4 trials if I remember well (which are standard for drugs and so), it is highly unlikely that any side effects have not been discovered yet. Sounds reasonable and logic to me, but then I have all vaccinations that are recommended were I live. Plus some optional ones. Neither do I read through al the potential side effects before I take drugs.

> So any long term effects manifest within weeks and months.

So long-term effects should really be called short-term effects?

Long term because they don't go away. Not because they show up after months or years. My understanding.