No way to say if this is a legit story, but I have seen this kind of thing at Intel, a subsidiary of comScore and a subsidiary of Siemens.
Toxic workplaces exist, and toxic teams within divisions exist.
When I saw this stuff, I was too young and inexperienced to recognize bad behavior and recognize my own power to go fish for something else. I did not have immigration issues to think about though, which adds a whole other dimension to getting stuck in something like this.
One time I saw this guy in the company softball league charge the pitcher over whether a pitch was a strike or a ball. It was absolutely not okay and the senior manager in the division said the guy was a "teddy bear" and "had kids" and that I needed to drop it.
I learned later that he was a major producer in sales engineering for the company's leading product.
Sometimes you get unlucky and are placed in a group like this. Powerful engineers probably have more control during the interview stage, and some companies can be good at getting rid of bad behavior. However results and loyalty can outweigh bad behavior.
Something that people should think about is their ability to manage emotional barriers. This isn't something I was taught growing up, but I hope young people are more familiar about asserting these today.
If people take advantage of you in your personal life, and you have the bad luck of being placed into a workplace with predatory personalities, they will take advantage of you there. Since that is your livelihood, it can be scary.
I'd advise people who experience toxic workplaces or think that they are in them to consider whether they themselves are lacking in the ability to assert their own boundaries and act on those assertions when they are broken repeatedly.
If you are not able to do this, use your health insurance to seek professional help because you'll need this ability in professional and personal environments for the rest of your life. Better to learn about yourself now than later.
If you don't have health insurance, there are communities on reddit and elsewhere that support people dealing with emotional abuse. Which is basically what this stuff is. You can learn a lot by reading and anonymously participating in these communities.
If at all possible get professional help even if it means cash out of pocket, because your mental health is among the most valuable investments you can make.
"I'd advise people who experience toxic workplaces or think that they are in them to consider whether they themselves are lacking in the ability to assert their own boundaries and act on those assertions when they are broken repeatedly."
This is terrible advice.
It's not a matter of 'character' that people cannot act, it's a matter of power.
The entire situation is due to a messed up power dynamic.
If the staffer was not deathly afraid they may have been able to do all sorts of things otherwise not possible.
"I'd advise people who experience toxic workplaces or think that they are in them to consider whether they themselves are lacking in the ability to assert their own boundaries and act on those assertions when they are broken repeatedly."
If that is what you took from my post, you’re mistaken.
People should not be emotionally abusive. But they are. They attain positions of power.
Through reflection you may come to realize they are among people you consider friends or family.
You can’t “fix” them, but you can learn how to handle or avoid them.
Sometimes, if a person looks inward and into their past they will find a pattern of people who have taken advantage of them.
If that’s the case there may be work to do, like:
- confront these past abuses
- recognize those that are ongoing and how to navigate them
- build and practice skills in recognizing and dealing with new toxic people going forward
Life is hard and we get taught things unevenly.
It is not a wrong to be ignorant of an important life skill.
And even when you have read all of the evidence and logic needed to recognize and change your circumstances, some wait far too long, or never do.
I do not blame folks in these positions, my heart goes out to them. Because I have been there.
edit:
I did not expect this chain to get the attention it did. And I had to look up victim blaming, because it sounds awful and I needed to understand if I got this wrong. I make mistakes.
I'm not going to try and further explain myself. If folks do not like this feedback, they may leave it. I will accept that some of my advice may be problematic. I'm not a therapist and I crafted these posts in the same speed and style I comment on technology platforms.
This is honestly not a subject I want to go into greater detail about today. I hope the empathy behind my words shows through and wish anyone in any toxic situation at home or work the best.
Because that's exactly what you're saying. It's abusive because you're not in control. When you say there is something the victim can do to stop the abuse you're saying they're in control therefore it's not abusive. It's not abuse if you can say, "no" and it stops.
> Sometimes, if a person looks inward and into their past they will find a pattern of people who have taken advantage of them.
If someone has moved one far enough from the original trauma in order to work towards self-development, that's good advice to them. But in this case, they are still dealing with the fallout. Your advice is extolling them to work on themselves rather than trying to bring the perpetrators to justice and seek restitution from those who did them wrong. In other words, you're placing burden on the wronged rather than focusing on those who wronged them. That's victim blaming.
I think bredren is oversimplifying a bit but not victim-blaming. Bullies choose their victims and they choose situations where their victims are unlikely to succeed in seeking justice. The article provides a clear example: if an junior manager wants a scapegoat to cover-up a failure, an immigrant on a limited visa is just perfect.
The poster you're responding to is dispensing advice on how to handle and escape from predators. Accusing them of victim shaming is wrong, and you're just siding supporting the predators by doing so. It's good advice.
"to is dispensing advice on how to handle and escape from predator"
No - his advice of 'applying assertion' is definitely wrong in this context, where the advice should be 1) leave or 2) bend like a reed in the wind and avoid avoid avoid. Reacting to antagonizing - even if the victim knew how to do it, would likely yield more blowback - and more likely, the victim would have no idea how to assert themselves.
The situation is not like 'physical assault' where you have nothing to lose from fighting back.
Inability to pushback is not a function of decision or character, it's a function of the crazy power dynamic.
If the victim had US citizenship, it would have been much easier to hold ground, for example.
Sounds like the kind of person who wouldn't last long in jail. "Hey you really shouldn't let him steal your peach cobbler. You need to push back." and gets his ass shived nine times.
Toxic workplaces exist, and toxic teams within divisions exist.
When I saw this stuff, I was too young and inexperienced to recognize bad behavior and recognize my own power to go fish for something else. I did not have immigration issues to think about though, which adds a whole other dimension to getting stuck in something like this.
One time I saw this guy in the company softball league charge the pitcher over whether a pitch was a strike or a ball. It was absolutely not okay and the senior manager in the division said the guy was a "teddy bear" and "had kids" and that I needed to drop it.
I learned later that he was a major producer in sales engineering for the company's leading product.
Sometimes you get unlucky and are placed in a group like this. Powerful engineers probably have more control during the interview stage, and some companies can be good at getting rid of bad behavior. However results and loyalty can outweigh bad behavior.
Something that people should think about is their ability to manage emotional barriers. This isn't something I was taught growing up, but I hope young people are more familiar about asserting these today.
If people take advantage of you in your personal life, and you have the bad luck of being placed into a workplace with predatory personalities, they will take advantage of you there. Since that is your livelihood, it can be scary.
I'd advise people who experience toxic workplaces or think that they are in them to consider whether they themselves are lacking in the ability to assert their own boundaries and act on those assertions when they are broken repeatedly.
If you are not able to do this, use your health insurance to seek professional help because you'll need this ability in professional and personal environments for the rest of your life. Better to learn about yourself now than later.
If you don't have health insurance, there are communities on reddit and elsewhere that support people dealing with emotional abuse. Which is basically what this stuff is. You can learn a lot by reading and anonymously participating in these communities.
If at all possible get professional help even if it means cash out of pocket, because your mental health is among the most valuable investments you can make.