> Why are we such an insane and violent species.

Quite often our bad qualities are the ones that ensure our survival and progress. Nowadays, most of us are neither insane nor violent. But I am sure those things contributed immensely in making us the dominant species of the planet.

Possible, but I don't think in this case it's worth it. I definitely agree that a lot of war, blood and death was needed to bring us to where we are now....But I think that even in such things, there's a code or a balance, and some sort of end justification. To me it seems like these elephants were slaughtered for trinkets, which I see as an example of the kind of unjustified, and gratuitous cruelty and insensitivity humans are expert at. It's dumb, and embarrassing and sad. I feel sad for us and for the elephants. Tragedy of "intelligent" life on Earth.

I looked up culturally normative. I think it's something to do with "cultural norms", so to say something is "culturally normative" indicates that it's one of a culture's "norms". If I don't get that right, feel free to correct me, I'm interested to learn about this terminology.

Definitely my view is subjective. It's my personal feeling about it. I'm not pretending to tell other people how they should feel about it. Nor would I expect them to tell me.

I agree we are Apex Predators and that's a good thing. I just think we can use our brutality responsibly and considerately. Hunt for food in a way that respects and maintains ecological balance, to me, is different to hunt for trinkets and sport.

If the elephants are attacking villagers indiscriminately and stomping children, and the 3 tribes eliminated were genetically predisposed to that behavior, I'd be there with you all carrying my pitchfork (or musket, or whatever), ready to "keeell those darned demonic elaphunts!" But if it was just gratuitous violence for trinkets against a large, caring, intelligent and sentient species, I think that's horrible, and that the people who did it, and that side of our nature (gratuitous cruelty) makes us terrible, and I feel it's terribly sad for us and the elephants.

I'm not attacking you personally, nor saying eating meat (or killing animals for some reasons) is terrible. But if you feel people aren't terrible in some ways, I get that perspective, I just think and feel differently about it!

I think there's a difference between hunting for food that's responsible and in balance, and hunting for sport or trinkets in a way that reduces 7 tribes of elephants to 4.

I agree we need brutal traits in our nature, but I also think that we can choose to use those brutalities judiciously, rather than gratuitously. This case, to me, is very much the latter, and so sad.

I think it’s more than taste bud pleasure. Animals are an easy source of protein with a complete amino acid profile. It takes real effort to learn how to eat a vegetarian diet (even one that incorporates eggs and dairy). Excluding eggs and dairy increases the difficulty even further. I’m not ready to be so pithy about it. And I have gone on extended vegan and vegetarian dieting phases due to ethical concerns. It’s hard.

> It’s hard.

It requires some effort, sure. But it has to be weighed against the suffering and killing and polluting that not doing it is responsible for.

Looking after children is hard. Studying is hard. Working for 40 years is hard. And yet we manage all these.

actually its not hard but the current demand of meat etc makes it hard. Go to supermarket around half of food is non vegan. And its hard to convince parents if children wants to become vegan because they think they may not get enough nutrition. And on another hand meat and dairy industry try to hide everything using marketing strategy like drink milk to become strong, McDonald food are high quality and rich people eats there etc.

Its just like palm oil which has become ubiquitous before 5 years we could avoid that now its hard.

> And its hard to convince parents if children wants to become vegan because they think they may not get enough nutrition

To be fair, it is pretty easy to cause yourself malnutrition by experimenting with diet. And you know how you feel and are adult.

It is even easier to cause it to kids and consequences can be serious. It is responsible for parents to go by what is recommended for kids.

>> Animals are an easy source of protein with a complete amino acid profile.

For example, the is Glycine in connective tissue. But how many people want their food processed and those parts kept off the plate?

Do you really think the majority of people are eating meat because they care about their health? Maybe in your bubble. The vast majority of people do not even know what protein is, let alone amino acid profiles etc.

India and Italy both have very large vegetarian populations, and they get along just fine.

Without wading into more of the morality of this, I'll add to my previous comment about how I feel about it, that I think the farming makes a difference. That we devastated natural populations, not through farming, is one difference, that right now I feel so much more terribly sad about.

Oh but we devastated natural populations through farming. According to the IPCC, humans have transformed _more than 70%_ of all ice-free land if you take stuff like agriculture into account. That's a lot of destroyed natural habitats.

I don't doubt that. And I definitely think farming can do much better in many ways, and that improvements in agritech can make a huge impact for humans and Earth's ecosystem.

I still feel that using the land like this, even when it destroys natural habitats (which is very undesirable), and farming animals for food, is still a much better use of land and animals, than the "let's hunt a natural population from 7 tribes down to 4 tribes for our trinkets, aha!"

Elephants are intelligent and social and I guess I feel sadder about them being slaughtered like this, than about fish dying as a result of an oil spill, tho that's still pretty sad for me.

If we were farming elephants for meat, or even tusks, and we went about it in the most humane way possible, along with supporting and not interfering with their natural populations as much as possible, I still might think that's wrong, but I wouldn't feel nearly so sad about it.

I just think these elephants had real lives, nothing to do with these humans, and we slaughtered them for stupid trinkets. What gives us the right? To me, it's an example of the kind of gratuitous cruelty humans are expert at. I don't just feel sad for the elephants, I feel sad for us.

Because that would be against the site guidelines.

Oh, so it's OK to call someone a moron as long as you use enough words?