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Spooky reading. Almost strange how many times this sad prophecy about surveillance has been told without us reacting properly. Even now; when we are approaching some of the most pessimistic scenarios foretold, we don't seem to react.



As if that's the only thing people don't react about?

Their jobs got outsourced, the police kills without penalty (especially blacks but any race will do), the lobbies run amok, their wages have been stagnant since the late 70s, their employers get increasingly more power over them, health, housing, and college have skyrocketed in costs, ...

... given all the above, which range from quality of life to life and death matters, and which not much protest has been done, surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list...


> not much protest has been done

> surveillance is close to the bottom of the priority list...

These are directly related. Surveillance causes chilling effects.


Sure, but so does apathy. Another approach would be to encourage apathy by legalizing pot. Oh...


Astute observation. The people are essentially being pacified with an ensemble of token gesture legislative palliatives and morale-sapping sedatives.


That one has always felt suspicious to me too ...


You're right; there are certainly worse things happening which deserves our full attention and reaction. But perhaps this type of "surveillance state", or the general loss of civil liberties is a key to eroding everything else to its core. In a true "surveillance state", anything is easy to rig for those controlling it...


I’ve seen lots of protesting over the last decade. The strange thing is that it never, ever amounts to anything other than completely trivial placation in the US. It seems like the Europeans are willing to burn their cities down to get something they want every few years, but they often end up getting it. Here, we can have a summer of rage and nothing happens. It spirals into minutia about whether it’s federal, state, or local changes. Some national programs or studies may happen, maybe a few local changes happen, but overall things go on as before. I can’t imagine an actual grass-roots challenge to something like constant domestic surveillance actually having any effect, because I’ve never seen it.


People react, but their reaction is channeled into a false dichotomy. What the elites learned from 1984 etc. is that you do need to provide an enemy for the people, but the people are not united; so you need to provide two enemies, each of which is a champion of one side and a foe for the other, and then let the spectre of this false choice become the defining characteristic of people's identity.

Witness it in the people who hate Trump or Clinton or Biden or anyone else that is put forward: you can divide an entire country on it right down the middle, and meanwhile their policies in reality (not policy positions! implementations!) are basically indistinguishable. The same thing would happen regardless of who is elected, for the most part, because the election is a show, a pressure release valve to make people think they've done something.

Even now we have people who think that electing Biden will help solve the problems you've pointed out. People ostensibly on the Left are mad about four years of rhetoric that has been riling them up, and have pulled the lever for "change" to resolve this. And yes, you will _hear_ less about blacks being shot by police for four years - that's part of the strategy, which the media cooperates / coordinates with. The actual number of incidents may not change... Instead, it will be time for news stories and events which angry up the Right for a few years, again forcing them to direct their resources and energy at fighting some spectre that won't change anything instead of directing their efforts inward to truly root out corruption and decay.

There is no protest. Protests are just the establishment throwing a different sort of parade, celebrating their power by demonstrating what they can allow to happen without facing any consequences themselves. Go ahead, yell in the street, burn down a city - nothing changes because nobody is listening and your actions ultimately only hurt people lower down the chain.

Surveillance did not stop the summer of Antifa and BLM rioting. It will not stop a summer of redneck riots if that's in the cards either. Surveillance probably does stop people who actually stand some chance of causing real change; but if that is a functional, working thing, you won't hear a word about it.


Everything's to the point except it wasn't Orwell who taught elites proper sheepherding. They've been doing it throughout all the known history.


Good point, yes. 1984 just gives us that crystal clear image of everyone hating Goldstein - whereas in this reality half the people hate Goldstein and the other half hate Steingold (or whatever you'd put in as a convenient narrative opposite, not intending to reflect any individuals in reality) and neither of them realizes that their hate should be focused on Big Brother himself.

(A quick google shows me that Steingold is famous for bagels, and nobody hates bagels)


What is teaching if not summing up history in a concise presentation :-)


And marx taught us about false consciousness.


That's a very bleak outlook. I hope you are wrong, but fear you are right.


I hope I am wrong too. It is bleak! It might be the six months of grey rain that I'm looking at out the window, it might be a year of heavy burden bearing down on me, or it might just be a heroic dose of Depressive Realism.


You are not wrong. I came across this poem in the Chinese Book of Songs. It is an acknowledgement of everything wrong happening around us, and over which we have no control; a way to keep your sanity and function. Something akin to rational anarchy.

Don't escort the big chariot; You will only make yourself dusty. Don't think about the sorrows of the world; You will only think yourself wretched.

Don't escort the big chariot; You won't be able to see for dust. Don't think about the sorrows of the world; Or you will never escape from your despair.

Don't escort the big chariot; You'll be stifled with dust. Don't think about the sorrows of the world; You will only load yourself with care.


Thanks for that. It's always good to be mindful that this is hardly the first or the last time that this will happen to me or anyone else :-)


Sometimes things have to get quite bad before enough incentive to fix them appears.


In conspiracy culture, this is called predictive programming. We are shown the ideas in films etc, so then when it appears in reality, we don't react in shock and reject it. Rather we shrug and are resigned to its appearance in reality.

This also correlates to the idea of boiling frogs. Apparently, if you turn up the heat slowly the frog will stay in the warm water and be boiled, as opposed to jumping out, which is what happens if you place the frog directly into warm water.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog#Experiments_and_a...

Overall, results seem inconclusive. I don't see that Hutchinson's result (frog becomes increasingly active as water is heated by 1°C per minute) contradicts Heinzmann's (no movement as water is heated by 0.2°C per minute).

Goltz's finding that "a frog that has had its brain removed will remain in slowly heated water" seems... unsurprising.


There is a joke in the same vein where scientists try and train fleas to learn and obey commands to jump. They find that the hardest fleas to teach how to jump on command are those with all legs removed: they’re the most stubborn and refuse to jump when asked 100% of the time.


I did say 'apparently'. :) Good research though!


By the time everyone can tell conspiracy theories from conspiracy practices it's already too late.

It's all based on three words: 'already', 'will', and 'we'. 'We are already being tracked by our smartphones - So we will be wearing implanted radio chips soon".

Reject 'we' by not using one and you're not being 'aready' tracked, and hence 'will' not accept whatever coming after this.

But it requires some bravery, which is known to be eradicated in people these days.


Well, conspiracy has a bad name, but really I think that's the only domain you can understand the possible reality of what's been planned and undertaken in this world nowadays.

It really should be a bad term - of course very powerful people conspire to ensure that they get the best they can. And that would mean writing legislation, defining what education is, etc, etc. Its all very obvious...


I remember a naval officer survivor of a rocket or torpedo hit (post WWII) describing what he was going through at those moments. He basically was tracking the thing with his eyes as it approached, practically mesmerized, not incapable of moving but locked in awe of that unstoppable thing approaching, knowing fully well that he should take cover immediately but practically doing nothing.

I think we're doing the same, in a sense asking privately "bring it on; let's see what this would do... to _them_ " as if we're watching a tornado from the safety of the TV not caring of the results; and like that navy officer not able to defend the ship, locked in awe (or ignorance?) of our own peril.



It isn't a prophecy it is reading in what you want to see from it. Snow Crash was over the top camp when it was first written.


Well, I haven't read Snow Crash, but this excerpt is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.


The main character of Snow Crash is named Hiro Protagonist. The above is meant to be absurdity, like the full body scanner in Airplane 2.


You mean like the ones we have now?


It was an absurdity at the time.


Well, I haven't seen Airplane!, but this example is neither "over the top" nor camp, and appears quite prophetic given 2020.




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