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That's fair. I haven't gone down the rabbit hole of reading everything he's said on the subject, and that was mainly in response to https://www.stallman.org/archives/2006-may-aug.html#05%20Jun... . And I do get (and agree with) your analogy, too.

For full disclosure, I think you can make a reasonable case for at least some of what he said in the link I just posted. For instance, an 18 year old having sex with their 17 year old partner doesn't automatically make it non-consensual, and lots of states have so-called "Romeo and Juliet" laws that agree. That's where the call for caution and careful phrasing come in: does he intend to mean it's OK for an 18 year old and a 17 year old to date (which I'd agree with), or for a 40 year old and a 15 year old (which I'd vehemently not agree with)? If what he meant was the former, I wish he would have clearly stated so and avoided the whole issue. If it really is the latter, then there's no way I'd attempt to defend that or be willing to consider the nuance (and more than I'd be willing to consider your analogy).




Stallman chooses his words precisely. An 18 year old dating a 17 year old isn't a pedophile formally or informally. The article he shared is about a campaign to make 12 the age of consent among other things.


But that's just it!

You're willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because you're a fan of his work and his ideologies in other spaces. Which makes sense, I dig it.

For myself, I'd rather not expend the mental gymnastics. If RMS had ever wanted to set the record straight, he could have. If he isn't willing to clarify, personally I'm uninterested in attempting to do it for him, and inclined to assume this (like his other writing) is direct and unambiguous.

(Edit, to add:) And to reinforce my previous point: sometimes the damage one's words do can't easily be undone, and treating everything like it's a philosophical debate and not someone telling us who they are may reinforce that harm.


I'm not disagreeing with you. I didn't follow this whole saga very closely and I picked the one quote of his that I'd seen in the headlines. It's not that I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt as much as up until this moment I haven't personally seen anything worse than that one comment.

That one comment by itself seemed bad but explainable. If he's said worse, well, damned if I'm going to be an apologist for a pedophilia advocate.


The latter would be legal in several European countries.


It was legal in Spain not so long ago, it was 13 the age of consent. Now is 16.


I'd probably state it this way.

It's one thing if someone makes an offhand comment like "Oh yeah, Hitler wanted to be an artist!"

You'd be like "Ok, interesting tidbit but whatever".

It'd be a whole 'nother thing if one multiple different occasions you start talking about positive hilter attributes.

I think it's reasonable for people to be pretty uncomfortable with the number of times and frequency that RMS seems to want to talk about underage sex. That certainly does not make him a pedophile. It is, however, pretty off putting.

All this makes me feel very much like the Hans Reiser case. I was internet active at the time and remember all of his fans swear up and down about how innocent he was and how much he was a victim of the corrupt judicial system. Then that fateful day happened when Reiser was convicted and basically said "Ok, if you'll give me a lighter sentence I'll show you where the body is".

Stallman did a lot of good for the opensource community, which makes him a hero to many. I think, however, it's unhealthy to try and justify his statements on pedophilia. It's ok to talk about the nuance of the laws (Certainly there are major issues with the way CP laws work. It's a bit crazy that teens are getting convicted of it over normal teen behavior). Stallman has been really icky here. He talks not about age difference but instead how "voluntary" the acts are. Trying to read in "Romeo and Juliet" scenarios when he himself doesn't even mention that is trying to paint a more rosy picture of what stallman wrote.

All of this, frankly, can also be cleared up by clarifications from Stallman (which he's not published). He could say pretty much exactly what you've said here "When I was talking about X, this is what I meant". He's not done that and I think that's really telling. Maybe someone told him to STFU, but then again, he's not really been silent on his positions on sex throughout the years, so why start now?


Ugh, I remember the Reiser case pretty well, and perhaps that's a good cautionary analogy.

And ultimately, you're right: if everyone misinterpreted him, it's on him to come out and explain what he really meant. It wasn't my intent to play devil's advocate here, and my original point was just that I think he can be a poor communicator on difficult topics.




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