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The Mac is losing me (underjord.io)
54 points by lawik on Nov 19, 2020 | hide | past | favorite | 84 comments



Hard to argue with any of his points, I've felt the same way about the state of Mac hardware and software for even longer. The software quality has been on a slow but sure slide for well over a decade at this point. The quality of Catalina is not good. Recently I've been using it more and have regular system crashes. There are serious bugs in the kernel. Big Sur looks like another step down in polish and quality. "More iOS" is simply bad strategy for a desktop operating system. I want a tool for professional work, not a locked down and dumbed down entertainment appliance.

10-15 years back, paying the premium for an Apple system got you a premium product. And back then, the premium was not excessive for the gain in hardware build quality and the software. Today, that is no longer the case. The value proposition is just not there. You're paying very inflated amounts of money for mediocre performance, nice looking but sorely limited hardware, and bad quality software.


I don't know what exactly Jobs did, but post-Jobs was when I felt the software quality start to slide.

I assume he had amazing attention to detail.


I assume that Apple's next chapter started coincidently with the leaving of Steve Jobs. Of course, I do not know if Jobs would be cool with today's Apple. But he certainly worked hard at turning it into the cash cow it is nowadays. So in other words, we are in a different cell of the BCG Matrix today.


"It's not that Steve was magical. It's that he was f*ing terrifying."


you have source on that quote? I searched and couldn't find anything.


Sorry, I don't. Vague memory says it was something someone said in a Facebook comment thread. Not very helpful, I know.


> Today, that is no longer the case.

My feeling is the opposite: There used to be an Apple hardware premium that was not (to me) justifiable at the time.

But as the software slowly declines, so does the premium - it feels to me like the M1 macs are priced with almost no premium anymore - there is nothing comparable right now (battery-life-wise, processors-speed-wise), but even with the Intel ones, a similarly specced base hardware is similarly priced (and the mac has much higher build quality than e.g. dell and hp in my experience).

The place where you still pay Apple premium is the upgrades (more memory, more disk). But overall, there's isn't much of a premium paid anymore when buying an Apple.


Counterpoint, would you buy a machine in 2020 to service as a developer laptop or desktop with 8 gb of ram and 512 gb of storage? Saying that the premiums are "just the upgrades" sort of ignores what those upgrades actually are and how much they cost.


512GB for a dev laptop? Yes I would. For 16GB RAM you pay +$200, even with that added the total price is still pretty low given what you get.


would you buy a machine in 2020 to service as a developer laptop or desktop with 8 gb of ram and 512 gb of storage?

As my only computer, probably not. As a portable computer that I can easily carry around with me and use for ~70-80% of my work, absolutely. The M1 Macbook Air is the first Apple computer in I don't know how many years I'm seriously considering buying.


Not really related but I got a surface pro to replace an Android tablet and even though I'm a native Linux user I find myself doing some light dev work on it. It's quite pleasant even with only 8gb of RAM. It only cost $700 though. If it was more expensive if be pretty unhappy about all the many, many deficiencies.

My partner has a new MacBook, a lot more expensive, and the performance is atrocious.


Wait, the base spec has 8gb? Can you even start chrome up on there? I'd be scared of running out with chrome and a few tabs....


I've been running Chrome on my Arch desktop with 8GiB of RAM just fine for the last couple of years. Usually averaging to 20 tabs


You know these are the low tier macs right? They did the same with the first intels...I am really concerned with us collectively having such poor recency bias. We’re only at the beginning of the transition. These macs they replaced were already bottom feeders and their punching above their weight. Give them by this time next year and we’ll have a better argument to form.


You're missing the fact that the M1 Macbooks are barely usable for anything else than browsing ( no Docker, no Adobe suite, etc.) and are the first generation. If they were too expensive even fewer people would risk buying them.

As for build quality, have you actually used and seen a recent premium Dell or HP? The difference in quality is minimal.


Adobe will make it happen and docker too. That's just a question of time. As oppose to Microsoft, Apple is taking to switch to arm seriously. Adobe currently has app running natively on the ipad. Between docker and the browser, there is a lot a work you can do, the world is not binary.

As for price, when you build a comparable system, price are similar between companies.


I think the beta version of native photoshop is already out?


I haven’t tried but reports are that rosetta2 works ok. Further, I’ve been doing a lot of software work over the last decade without using Docker - it’s useful for some thing la but far from a necessity in general.

I haven’t used a recent premium HP - I used them a lot in the past though (that’s the reason I won’t touch them....). I have used a recent premium Dell. No dice. Nothing except the premium Thinkpad is in the same league in my opinion and experience. And the comparable thinkpads are comparable in price.


You (and I) are clearly not the target market.

95% (guessing) of the people use their computer only for email/browsing and gaming. Apple is a premium brand for them, bought as a statement (I am cool, or something).

People pay premium for most things: clothing, watches, cars, etc. Many of these more expensive things we buy do not differ much of the competition, except for being a well known brand.


I am heavily invested in the Apple ecosystem: MBP, iPhone, iPad, tons of apps. But I’ve decided I’m out. Ryzen-based machines have caught up; Windows has caught up; and I’m willing to give the Linux desktop the benefit of the doubt again. Every new macOS release I feel more and more boiled to death, more locked in, more exploited than before. Even the eyecandy, which was what I loved OSX from the very first release, is now utterly terrible and getting worse release after release.

I was happy to pay a premium for a premium platform, but this is not what I’ve been getting in the last 5 years - what I’ve been getting is a support role to the iPhone ecosystem that is the alpha and the omega of Apple’s strategy, and more and more restrictions to satisfy this role. Obviously this is good for them, but it just isn’t for me, so I’m out.


I regularly use both a Mac and a Windows machine, and I can't overstate that I've had the absolute opposite experience: Windows is a stale, stagnant, consistently shitty OS whereas my experience with MacOS has gotten slightly better.

I also have many phones as a result of work, and have preferred Android for years — but recently decided I prefer the iPhone for my personal phone.

I'm surprised by it, in a way, but Android flagships leave a lot to be desired lately.


I have long preferred iPhones - one way or another, Android always ended up feeling unpolished and laggy. However, since the "flat" redesign I have felt iOS is on a downhill slope. Apps are increasingly crashy, I even had a scare with the Google Authenticator last week. I can sacrifice some freedom and money for convenience and looks, but if one side keeps altering the deal I have to question whether the bargain is still worth it.


I haven't had this experience with iOS yet, but I can say that Google Authenticator is easily replaced by Authy, which is superior on all fronts.

Google Authenticator feels like a side project that vastly exceeded its intended, critically important use.


> Windows has caught up

When did that happen? Just opened the system preferences on my Win10 desktop, its still shitty.


The new Windows Terminal app is nice, the overall feeling is not as crashy as it used to be, WSL is alright, Docker is alright, they are shipping openssh... Not perfect but macOS is hardly perfect too (and arguably more opaque when things go wrong).


It still doesnt compare well to iterm2. So many features missing.

However, may be in a few years they could catch up ?


Not even Linux has a terminal as good as iTerm2, yet funnily enough Windows Terminal is the closest one in terms of eye candy and ergonomicity.

I've gone crazy trying to find a good, maintained GNOME terminal with good implementation of Smart Copy (Ctrl-C copies if there's a selection, which is unnecessary under OSX) and some semblance of UI. Kitty was the best but it has no UI, which means you need a cheatsheet for the first month of usage to remember how the heck to access the scrollback buffer when you're doing some late night server debugging.

Windows Terminal has GPU acceleration, splits, a good implementation of Smart Copy, the fact that it does both WSL2 and PowerShell is pretty neat. No tmux integration yet, but I don't use tmux personally.


> Ctrl-C copies if there's a selection, which is unnecessary under OSX

That's because macOS uses a wholly different keyboard shortcut for copy which is only a standard for Apple. The rest of the world uses the IBM CUA standard at their core. On a Linux desktop, you use `Ctrl+Shift+C` to copy when in the terminal. Alternatively, you can re-bind Super+C and Super+V to copy and paste - then it's just like your Mac. But I wouldn't do that [0].

Macs have all sorts of inconsistencies and hardships for keyboard users. For instance, open the `About this Mac` window (or any app running in the menubar which is not a System Preferences app) and then move focus away from that program. Now try to use the keyboard to switch back to it. You can't. The only way you can do that is by starting `About this Mac` over again via Spotlight or by focusing on the menu (Fn+Ctrl+F2) to restart it.

Aside from that, if you don't want to memorize keyboard shortcuts on your Mac you have to at least memorize the cryptic symbols that they show in the program menus. A sane OS shows the same words that are typically printed on a keyboard (Ctrl+Shift+Alt+Esc) whereas macOS shows you a caret symbol, a long up arrow arrow symbol, a lambda symbol or the "Escape" symbol that looks too much like the international symbol for the power button... and then they don't print those symbols anywhere on the laptop's keyboard. Those symbols are only printed on the external Mac keyboards, not the ones that come with your Macbook.

[0] Macs have so many limitations. You can't even easily change the mouse pointer color from black to white without buying a third party program - and even then - that program didn't exist for a long, long time. I've tried to force my Mac to be an OS that I like by getting rid of the hideous global menu bar and replacing the brain-dead dock with uBar, using Witch instead of Cmd+Tab, using Karabiner to modify all the keyboard shortcuts and so forth and so on... It's not worth it and things will break often. So now I just use it the way it was intended (but only when I have to - I vastly prefer XFCE and Linux).


On macOs, it's the same shortcuts as Emacs. Except the `ctrl+x+[other]` uses the command key.

IMO its significantly superior for programming.

It's also the reason there is less key on the keyboard, it's simply more efficient. Plus, you have the benefits of having the same bindings in all the apps. Either it's the terminal, your mail client or your IDE. `cmd+s` or `ctrl+x` or `ctrl+q` or name it, always do the same thing. That can't be said for any other desktop.

I know you can configure Gnome to have emacs keybinds, but it's not the same and many apps break the users configured.


> That can't be said for any other desktop.

The vast, vast majority of my Linux and Windows desktop apps share the same core keyboard shortcuts. `Ctrl+S` is always save, `Ctrl+X always cuts and `Ctrl+W` always closes the current window. The terminal is one program that doesn't - but that's fine with me because I don't think of it as just another program - it's more like a wholly different operating system or subsystem. Aside from that, the amount of work I have to do with memorizing extra keyboard shortcuts like `Ctrl+Shift+C` for the terminal is still overall less than what I'd have to do on a Mac.

I can operate the entirety of Windows or XFCE with just a few shortcuts that I've memorized (or not) while macOS will have you using the mouse or memorizing hundreds of distinct shortcuts - one for each separate function. Even something simple like switching windows - on a Mac you have to memorize 2 separate shortcuts - one for switching between programs and another for switching between windows in that program.

Macs also don't have keyboard acceleration via the "Alt key + underlined letter in context menu." They also don't have a dedicated right-click key. These are super useful since I can hit a key to bring up a menu and then hit another key to activate a menu item - no memorization required.

I've never seen anyone operate a Mac with just their keyboard. Anyone I've ever observed on a Mac used the touchpad very heavily with low efficiency.


I think Tilix is the best GTK3 terminal on linux. I am not sure about its development status though, I seem to remember its maintainer wanting to stop working on it at one point, but the github history seems active enough.


Agreed, but it has a buggy implementation of Smart Copy, so I had to use something else


Could you please tell me what you mean by buggy smart copy? I don't think I know the term.


Yeah, same here. also went on terminal search for linux. In the end Terminator won over kitty for me. Because Terminator had better (simpler to use) pane support. Unfortunately, it doesnt have all of the iterm2 pane features :(


Windows terminal seems to have everything I need. What features are missing I'm reall curious what I could be missing and not being aware


- ui to configure options. currently it is editing json

- back then i was missing, pane zoom (only recently got added).

- looking at the docs, i think cycling through zoomed / unzoomed panes is stil not yet there. i might be wrong.

- configuring how the split lines looks of the terminal.

- moving panes to other tabs

found the ticket around panes: https://github.com/microsoft/terminal/issues/1000

there is quite some todo left.


Give Pop!_OS a try. It is great for gaming. I have a very old Intel i5 (2500k) and a Nvidia GTX 970 (I think) and I have a very solid gaming experience with Steam Play on it.

Pop!_OS is Ubuntu based but with Flatpak instead of Snap and without the Ubuntu calling home stuff. Meaning it is great for development. Last time I tried developing on Windows I remember being very frustrated. Now I don't have Windows installed on anything and I am happier for it.


Do as I did and play with the various distros in VirtualBox for a bit. Have a careful look at the Desktop Environment, i.e., which one suits you. Doesn't take long to figure out whether a distro is for you or not. If you don't like it from trying coming from a Mac, then it won't be good enough for the long haul.

I've tried so fedora, Pop!_OS, elementary, KDE Neon. As a long term Ubuntu / Debian (server) user I was used to apt but would be open to other package managers. Based on my trials, I'm probably going to go ahead with KDE Neon, that is Ubuntu with KDE Plasma Desktop. This seems to be a nice cross-over between Windows 10 and MacOS with sane defaults but enough options to tailor it to my liking.


I did the switch for my personal laptop when Apple added the touchbar. Telling myself about the same reasons plus the price tag.

I already had a Windows Desktop for game, and for the first time in the Windows history, I really liked what they did with windows 10. They also seem to be more invest in pushing the platform forward. And contrary to the popular opinion, I do believe in convertible devices. Also, I told myself I can also run Linux for development.

I then bought an HP laptop with similar spec than the MBP, for about 500$CAD less. Seem like a real save, but god I was wrong.

The fun with Linux lasted for less than a month before I just gave up.

The consistent (across all apps and terminal), powerful default emacs key bindings on the macs is a gem for programming and productivity. I miss that all day.

The touchpad is mediocre, they are all mediocre, never saw one working as good as the MBP. Even when someone told me that they're working great and let me try it, it was clear they never work with a MBP or don't use it that much.

Native apps in general, like photo, video editing, notes etc. are more polish and perform better on the mac. Web app though is quite different. icloud.com is terrible compare to onedrive.

Resume, battery life, screen, even if the tech specs sheet says it's the same, it's not in real life.

It's hard to put a price on all that, but at the end, I didn't save 500$ in value, I lost way more than that. Moreover, comparable specs, innovative devices like the surface line, are now price about the same.


Did you find any decent alternative laptop?

I find my daily routines have been deeply overfitted to macbook/macOS on a firmware level. The sunk cost can be quite staggering for users like me.


I've been pleasantly impressed by the Ryzen-based Thinkpad. It feels solid, unlike the Dell XPS I've tried in the past. I'm not particularly mobile anyway, at the moment, and I have a dedicated room for working from home, so I'm just tempted to get a desktop next.


Just a note for anyone thinking about transitioning from macOS to a Linux desktop workstation, like the author here: I would advise against using "as light a desktop environment as I can stomach". Full-featured desktops like KDE and Gnome are comparatively light on resources and also simplify your personal system administration considerably. If you want to customize everything, by all means! :) That's the beauty of Free Software. But despite what you may remember from 10+ years ago, KDE today is definitely not "heavy".


It feels like how older tech nerds get, the more nostalgic and conservative they become. Remember when your parents said "everything is moving so quickly, and it's not getting better"? You're now reaching a point in live where you wish for simpler times.

Apple is not perfect. I also agree their quality is getting worse. I understand why people say that everything used to be better. But their customers can now do things with their hard- and software that we couldn't imagine 10 years ago. That progress has a cost. Apple can't be everything to everyone. They're fine with the churn rate as it is.


“I've come up with a set of rules that describe our reactions to technologies:

1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.

2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.

3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.”

― Douglas Adams, The Salmon of Doubt


Regarding 3) However, this time it's not solely about tech, but about workflows. Apple was once leading in human-computer symbiosis, now, seeing Big Sur, Apple has become actually bad about this.

(I get that Apple is now a media house, but the Big iOS won't do for all purposes. A computer, and we may say, historically especially the Mac, isn't only about consuming and a virtual kaleidoscope, it's also the universal means of production since a few decades ago.)


What's so bad about Big Sur (except the bypassing firewalls) ?

From what little experience i have with it (being recently released), everything still just works as expected. They changed the layout of a few things, but at least from my usage perspective it still works every bit as well as the previous versions.

Granted, i mostly use mail, text editors, terminals and browsers with the occational hobby photo editing and 3d printing slicers, but for my programming and photo workflows it still fits the bill nicely.

I use Windows 10 at work every day, and while it runs well enough there are still countless "little things" that bug me.

About 10-15 years ago i stopped doing "point and click" to open applications, and instead rely on Spotlight to find and open apps. This works 99% of the time. On windows ... not so much. Press the windows key, start typing, and it either doesn't find what you're trying to open, or it finds it, but in the time it takes my brain to register the correct result i have typed another (correct) letter, and the wanted result is gone, replaced by some annoying Bing website.

Control Panel ? Why do we need 3-4 of them ?


It's the look and feel – and more than this. E.g., when Apple decided that customizable icons in the sidebar were bad for their corporate identity, this didn't cost me just a few moments of lifetime whenever I use a file dialog, it also puts some extra stress on me. Now, since visual orientation doesn't work anymore, I've to actually read the list to identify a project folder. Moreover, this also means unloading some of the working memory (just 7 chunks, but there are more than this in the sidebar!) and having to get back into the workflow after having finished what should have been a task as modeless as possible. Big Sur iterates on this, just think centered text and vertically stacked buttons for prompts (as opposed to everywhere else). It's a zoo of micro modes. Another example, the now-you-don't-see-me – now-you-see-me game of the proxy icon, varying window geometry (Mail), etc.


These are all examples you can get used to. Like you've gotten used the current version of MacOS. Big Sur has a lot of improvements. Sometimes you just have to take the good with the bad.


> These are all examples you can get used to.

Actually, no. All these examples are about orientation and how the UI paradigms integrate with the human neural physis. This isn't simply changeable by accustomization. E.g., if the primary structure of the visual field breaks (like the one given by the primary horizontal contours), our brain blocks for a full situational update (which takes about 0.2 secs). Similarly, visual orientation is considerably faster than reading lists. Identifying a colored dot on the screen chips just a single bit from your stack of working memory. Aiming at an invisible point target is difficult and requires extra attention. This isn't subject to negotiation, it's just how we are wired.

Edit, another perspective on this: Toys tend to be robust and to grab as much attention as possible. Professional tools, on the other hand, are sometimes delicate, you should know what you're doing, and they are also highly optimized to facilitate a trade and not to get in its way. From this perspective, Big Sur progresses on the toy scale. This is good news for a media house that uses this contraption as the primary outlet, but it may be bad news for those who use it as professional tool.


But I could do those things and had a free environment. And non-Apple users can do these things too.

On the contrary, I think younger people seem to get worse with tech, which should not happen but can easily be explained by manufacturers locking down environments.

Maybe they just aren't that interested, true, but I don't think Apple is revolutionary on any one feature to be honest.


I think the M1 processor is quite revolutionary honestly.

Yes, kids these days have less fundamental knowledge about tech. But that's because a lot of problems that were interesting to us are now solved. My son doesn't have to know anything about modems, BBS'es, sound cards and MP3 codecs in order to listen to music. He can just start Spotify on almost every device in our household. It took me months to know how to do that.


I came of age just as Macs were getting really "cool" again, around the mid 00's. In college, as soon as I got a little money in my pocket from scholarships and grants I went out and bought a Macbook.

If anything the nostalgic conservative position for me to take would be that Macs are still awesome and cool despite any critiques.

What big innovation would be scaring me away at this point? Changing architectures? That's happened in the past. Macbooks are still macbooks more or less.

Locking down the system more and more each generation isn't innovation. It isn't "conservative" to criticize vendor lock in or to prefer more user freedom over the familiar comfort of Apple's design language.


Is it a case of things are getting worse, the costs are more evident, or priorities change?

Each case is different, yet they often seem to be placed in the same bin. Take one of the big discussion points this week, verification of software. It is hard to say whether it is better or worse. System security is more important than ever, so it can be argued it is better. At the same time, there is a cost. There are times when it may not be reliable and there is a potential to use it for planned obsolecence. Planned obsolecence may not be an issue for the first time buyer or someone who is experiencing a lot of change in their life (mostly the young), yet it will have an impact upon people who have progressed beyond that stage and have other priorities in life.


> their customers can now do things with their hard- and software that we couldn't imagine 10 years ago. That progress has a cost. Apple can't be everything to everyone.

That is definitely not the point of the article. In the author's experience he has a direct loss of functionality, like the throttling or the inability to install not verified software.


The article and some of the comments seem to be missing the point. The new M1 chips are Apple's first foray into developing their own silicon for computers, these are not the laptops specialized users want.

BUT the new Air can compile Rust in half the time as the 16" MBP, Tensorflow it many times faster, 1.5 hours of web browsing and YouTube depleted only 4% battery. And that's just less than a week of testing. This is the biggest proof yet that Apple's approach to hardware+software was always the right one for them.

Now, I do disagree with the increasing control they exert, how they prevent you from upgrading directly or installing other OSes. I hope they start to care more about developers and tinkerers in the future.

I've always loved Windows and Linux, and I've gone back to it after trying a MacBook, but I can't deny what they have achieved with the M1 has given me second though about using an MBP as my main computer in the future.


As an "old fart" that has used just about every operating system for the past 30 years (OS/2, BeOS and Linux included), i switched to Macs around the time OS/X was released.

Besides the "keyboardgate" on recent Macbook Pro's, i don't really have any complaints about the hardware. Maybe it's getting worse, but still way ahead of the generic PC vendor quality. I have a 2009 MBP that still sees daily use, and still fulfills a purpose (not it's original one). I can't say that for any of my regular laptops. Just a simple thing as the touchpad. On my Mac it "just works" as i expect it to, and rarely gets in my way. I've yet to meet a generic PC touchpad that doesn't annoy me in 30 seconds or less.

As for the software. I can't really say it's gotten worse. I rarely experience crashes on my Macs, and kernel panics has been maybe 3-4 times in a decade. Most of the time i open up my Macbook, do "stuff", and close the lid again. It auto installs software updates whenever it's charging and not being used, and automatically reboots and resumes whatever windows i had open (minus terminal windows), so from a user perspective i never reboot it.

It integrates well with my iPhone, Airpods, iPad, and even Apple TVs. Yes i'm aware competing technologies exists, and individually they may even perform better, but they don't integrate fully with each other. As for Apple, it "just works".

Apple may be a popular target, but they're still a lot better than the alternatives, especially if you're dug in deep in their eco system.


> As for Apple, it "just works".

Counterpoint - I have an MBP and AirPods and often I can't connect them together. Both produced by the same company, yet quite unreliable together. It's probably related to the shitty BT implementation, or WiFi noise. But to sell expensive headphones that fail at producing, you know, ... sound, it's quite a feat. And on this MBP model there's no wired microphone input, because aesthetics, or just to save a penny.


The 3.5mm headphone jack on the MBP is also a microphone input.


oh :-/


Another old fart here.

I switched to Macs back in 2006. I've used every OS you can imagine going back to VMS. I like Mac OS the best.

I missed the whole "keyboardgate" thing. My daily driver is a 2012 MBP with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb storage. It still does everything I need to do. From the development side that means running multiple VMs, running Docker and general application development. From the creative side that means writing and recording music with Logic Pro and working with photos in Adobe's Lightroom.

That's what Mac does so well - it gives me a good platform for both development and my creative outlets. I was recently thinking about my options for moving off of the Mac platform and they're rather bleak. On the software side Ubuntu Studio looks like the best option but on the hardware side? Slim pickings. For starters there's nothing, and I mean nothing, that compares with Apple's trackpad. Then there's the fact that the "Apple Tax" has largely evaporated - by the time I get a similarly-configured PC I'm in the same ballpark price-wise as a Mac. But I have a worse software experience.

I'm looking hard at the new MBA. I'm likely going to need a new machine in 2021/2022. At a minimum homebrew and Docker need to be working before I can make a switch. I've been stoked hearing that the performance of x86 applications are as good or even better than their performance on the current generation of MBP's. That's an impressive feat! Plus I figure if I ever need a "genuine x86" I can always spin-up an EC2 instance.

For development and creativity it's hard to beat a Mac!


Old fart here too.

I have the exact same experience as you, and even after using Linux om multiple machines for 20+ years (desktops, laptops and servers) I still prefer Macs and MacOS.

Changed work recently and went back to my late 2013 MacBook Pro for a few months. It still works great with Big Sur - try that on a 7 years old PC...

And I love my 2 days old MacBook Pro m1, the keyboard is perfect and the esc-key is as God intended it (yeah, for emacs...).


I was moved, quite against my will, into the Mac field three years ago, by the company I was working for. It didn't start as my cup of tea, but I eventually got used to it. Hell, I even started enjoying using my MBP. It checked the right boxes in my list.

Since Catalina, it doesn't anymore. Or, at least it doesn't check as much boxes as it used to. And, frankly, it's not worth the cost anymore. I could justify the expense for an used 2015 MBP, which felt like a slick and comfortable machine. Can I justify the expense for another Mac, now that it feels distinctly uncomfortable?


This is all true. Wish Apple wasn’t destroying macOS so much. Things used to be so much better in terms of user experience, clean APIs and features. Everything is over-policed, buggy and ugly now, especially in Big Sur.

Apple’s attention to detail is gone.


I feel exactly the same way. My 2019 MBP is probably the last Mac I will buy, it's my 3rd MBP since 2008. Each time, I have upgraded, it's felt like a worse experience.


Feels like the heyday of articles about abandoning the Mac platform passed a couple of years ago. The Mac is in better shape now than it's ever been, and the M1-era is going to be jaw-dropping. Hey, use whatever you want, it's fine…but I don't think there's any systemic issue with the State of The Mac in 2020 in the way there was back in the trashcan Mac Pro and butterfly keyboard era of hardware stagnation.


As the author, I think you are right. It isn't stagnant. But it also isn't a good fit for me in the tradeoffs it makes. M1 has promising performance but intensifies my already painful dongle town situation.

To me Apple are making 50/50 good and bad moves but they are maybe hitting 25/75 for my use cases. So they are losing me.


I'd love to see a Mac restart for those who actually work with and on the computer. – Think NeXt for the 2020s.


What would be a good laptop alternative to the MBP 2019?

I really prefer UNIX over windows for development but enjoy windows for the 'office' software. OSX really hits the sweet spot in between for me.

What would you recommend windows with WSL2 or VM? Archlinux dual-boot?


ThinkPad X1 Extreme Gen3 would be a direct alternative.

Also look at X1 Carbon (lighter but only 16GB RAM), T-series (cheaper but heavier), P-series (performance, but big and expensive).


Going from 3 years in the Mac world back to Arch Linux was too much of a shock to bear. Plenty of stuff is still unpolished, in flux, making for a subpar desktop experience.

I'm on WSL2 now and honestly, I'm loving it.


Gnome 3 to me is hard to beat gui wise... Add a window tiler and I don't even think about it being there. It just damn well works.


For many people, Apple offered laptops that they felt checked the right boxes for their needs and now they don’t. Whenever Apple makes a change to the operating system people come out of the wood works to chip in their 2 cents about how much worse everything is now and how much better it all used to be back when they first fell in love with the Mac.

Apple made it marginally more difficult for power users to install software they want on their computer so that must be an indication of their move to walling off the software ecosystem on the mac! It’s a one time one extra step for something that is a relative rarity, running unsigned applications. Unless all you do all day is download and run unsigned .dmg files from github, this seems like a remarkably rare occurrence that you have to address.

MacOS now defaults to being rootless! System Integrity Protection clearly exists to restrict me from running any code I want on MY COMPUTER! Well, except that it can be turned off by anyone who knows and cares to do so (i.e. the power user) while retaining the security benefits that it gives to the vast majority of users that don’t need the functionality it provides.

Nearly any move apple has made that at a cursory glance looks to be being made to close off the Mac software ecosystem hasn’t actually stopped people from running arbitrary code on the OS. It’s some weird sense of entitlement that power users seem to have and they get indignant that they have to change their behavior at all.

I remember when I first tried linux from Windows and the whole idea of having to sudo to install software made me upset. I’m the administrator! I shouldn’t have to put in a password anytime I want to install new software! Why does it make me do this when this account is an admin?! It was indignant and it was also a remarkably stupid take from someone who had more hubris than wisdom.

Whether people acknowledge it or not, they’re always making compromises when it comes to their computers. It’s easy to be heavily critical of the things that you experience on a day to day basis. Little bugs that are really starting to piss you off. The software making you jump through some extra hoop just to do what you want it to. It’s less easy to see the major downsides of the “other side” if you’re not there. The author of this article seems defeated and stuck between a rock and hard place. On the one hand he gets the Mac with its limited expandability, limited hardware options, and high prices. On the other hand he has a linux box with unremarkable to bad UX but with the ability to outfit it with (relatively) cheap and powerful commodity hardware.

Perhaps the vast majority of disillusioned Mac users are simply unaware of all the controversies and issues that have cropped up in PC land. They’re unable to see over those high walls and simply assume it’s better on the outside. As someone that regularly uses Linux, Windows, and MacOS, I can assure you that each of them have things that absolutely delight me and then another set of things that makes me want to smash my computer on the ground and give up on them entirely.

You may find some relief to the issues you have now. I guarantee you will just be replacing them with something else, though.


The time to stop allowing yourself to be exploited is ever and always right now.

Last year might have been better, but a year from now you could think that again. Now is the best you can ever do.


Seeing where the industry is going, I'm thinking more and more of having "one computer per purpose" rather than trying to have "one computer to rule them all" (and in the darkness bind them, ahem, sorry, I digress ^^).

To explain a bit more, I do writing, development, photo editing, video editing, music production. Nowadays, my sole computer (besides multiple Raspberry Pi) is a gaming laptop running Windows. It can handle all of these tasks.

Before that, I had a 2012 MBP, but when I wanted to upgrade to an other mac with 32GB RAM, a good graphic card and Thunderbolt 3 in the end of 2015/beginning of 2016, the option of that much RAM and a good video card just wasn't there at the time, and so I switched to the Windows world again.

I've been able to upgrade the gaming computer over the years to 32 GB RAM, I now have 3 (!) SSD in the computer, and it runs what I want quickly enough (except for Lightroom, but that's an other story ;)).

But for development, the feeling just isn't there, even with WSL/WSL2, it's just not as straightforward as macOS with homebrew or macports, not to talk about Debian or Archlinux which are even better, so for me, it always feel like "death by a thousand cut" to develop on Windows platform.

For video, ProresRAW is only available on Apple, and I want to futureproof my future cameras in that aspect too. Or maybe I could go the BlackmagicRAW path to be able to do it in the Windows or Linux world, or converting to Prores4444, but ProresRAW and BlackmagicRAW don't seem to like each others, and in video, I don't want to spend my time fighting the computers and the codecs. So I'll probably have to switch to Mac in the long run for that.

For the sound part, in my point of view, there is still nothing coming close to Mac with CoreAudio, even if Linux is good (with Jack & cie), macOS is miles ahead when it comes for example to plugin or DAW support. And in Windows, it's still not as good as mac for Audio, at least in my perspective.

For the photography part, Darktable is getting good and faster than Lightroom, but still not as efficient in workflow than Lightroom or Capture One. Buuut it's getting close.

So I think more and more of buying one laptop just for Linux & development (or even stripping a Chromebook of Chrome OS and installing Linux on it ?). Use my iPad for writing, because it's the most enjoyable "sit on a couch and write" experience. And maybe buy a M1 (or M2) Mac for Audio, Video, Photo.

There still remain the question of buying a beefy workstation with for example 128GB RAM and beefy graphic card and 10GBe and RAID, to handle the big audio/video/photo project. I wanted to go the Hackintosh route, but now with ARM, I don't know if it's a futureproof purchase...


Young people still like Macs. It’s only older folks who ask who moved their cheese.


I have never nderstood people buying Apple.

Some people here mention paying a premium for a premium service but i dont see it:

- best case scenario you buy a tech which is 1 year ahead in quality, but if you buy a computer for min 5 years this reasoning makes not so much sense to me.

- you still have a thousand limitations such as games, compatibility with other devices, being locked in and the planned slowdown of devices when new releases are here..

Most people i know who had apple computers or phones did not even buy it for argument 1. They were just laypeople who just bought it because they thought it was cool, and actually were surprised by all the limitations afterward.

To apple only made their money on the power of FAME and "coolness" only. I dont see how the "product" has ever been any better at any point. (Ok except the iphone in the first smartphone years.)


I’m a developer, I’m a music producer, I almost exclusively use touch pads, I hate Windows, and in general I don’t want to futz around with my operating system. I want shit to just work and I don’t want my OS to constantly badger me and show me ads.

So yeah, I’ll stick with my Mac purely because it is “cool” even though it has sooo many limitations that make it unbearable to use on a daily basis


I understand it as a music producer because of Logic, but I don't understand it as a developer. At all to be honest.


It’s a Unix with millions of dollars in UI/UX. There’s a lot of things to like.


I do think the UI is good but not that revolutionary better than their competitors. And while not true per se, I don't associate Unix with hard vendor lock in.


Being a developer doesn't automatically mean you should hate Apple. I'm a developer, and I don't.


I don't hate Apple, I recommend it for certain users. But it cannot really supply me with anything that isn't available to me while maintaining more freedom and flexibility. I also don't like to develop against their environment since I think it to be too restrictive.


As a happy Apple user I completely disagree. You can just use their products as they intended and it works well. If you run into limitations, there are alternatives. My kids love gaming on the Apple TV and iPad. And if they want to play a blockbuster game, they use a console. I can't think of other limitations I ran into.

Is it perfect? No. But the "it just works" slogan is still true enough to relieve me from the duties of a system administrator for my own family, like when we were using Windows. Spending and entire evening reinstalling Windows because the sound card stopped working after an update is not my hobby. I have 3 Raspberry Pi's running in this household and that's enough sysadmin work for me.

Yes it's expensive, but less than you'd think. Try reselling a year old Windows PC. Almost impossible. A year old Macbook? You can sell it within 15 minutes for a good price.


> Try reselling a year old Windows PC. Almost impossible. A year old Macbook? You can sell it within 15 minutes for a good price.

So the biggest advantage of Macs is that you can get rid of them easily? :)




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