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Very off-topic, but long ago when Albert Einstein went for a car ride with Mr. Gödel to become U.S. citizens, Einstein was trying very hard to think of ways to shut him up about a Constitution loophole he discovered. Things didn't go exactly as planned, and in front of the naturalization examiner, Mr. Gödel started blabbing about how he had found a way the U.S could be transformed into a fascist regime...

Sources: https://robert.accettura.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/Morg...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurt_Gödel#cite_note-23



In light of current circumstances this story has actually been on my mind! Has there ever been any more detail revealed about Godel's scheme?


There is some more information at

https://jeffreykegler.github.io/personal/morgenstern.html

There's also an article about this question at

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=2010183


Thanks the second one finally answered the question:

In summary, Gödel’s loophole is that the amendment procedures set forth in Article V self-apply to the constitutional statements in Article V themselves, including the entrenchment clauses in Article V. Furthermore, not only may Article V itself be amended, but it may also be amended in a downward direction (i.e., through an “anti-entrenchment” amendment making it easier to amend the Constitution). Lastly, the Gödelian problem of self-amendment or anti-entrenchment is unsolvable. In addition, the author identifies some “non-Gödelian” flaws or “design defects” in the Constitution and explains why most of these miscellaneous design defects are non-Gödelian or non-logical flaws.


I'm sad that there isn't an explanation of Godel's proof!

But, given that we can amend the constitution, it does seems fairly straightforward that a dictator could come to power, if there was approval of a super majority of the people.


Wait what? Do tell, the links aren't great on my phone.


The constitution is BS anyway.

For example, Article I, section 10 says "No state shall...coin money, emit bills of credit, make any thing but gold and silver a tender in payment of debts..."

And look what the US has today; fiat money. No only is it not gold or silver, but it's not event backed by it.

Based on this definition, nobody in the US earns any money so nobody should have to pay any income tax since basically everyone's income is 0 ounces of gold and 0 ounces of silver. Yet this argument would not stand in court even though it's 100% logical.

We're all just a bunch of monkeys. The implementation of the law always comes down to what the most popular monkeys think it is.

If the most popular monkeys think that the definition of 'gold' actually means 'feces', then before you know it, we will all start throwing feces at each other as a means of payment.

What's the point of defining the law using words if people will later distort the meaning of those words to suit their purpose? you may as well rely on gut feelings and majority rule to decide what is right or wrong.


Key word is “state”. The point is that the states don’t coin money - the federal government does.


This is yet one more attempt to distort the original meaning of the law by drawing attention to specific words that are immaterial to the original intent of the law.

The states are in fact printing money which is not gold or silver no matter how you look at it... It doesn't matter that they are all printing the same currency. This activity is happening within the physical confines of individual states and they are using that money to pay their debts.

The simplest interpretation is the correct one. Especially when you consider the history of the US.

If the law was merely about not allowing states have sovereignty over their own fiat currencies then they would not have mentioned the words 'gold' or 'silver'.


Aside from your gold bug commentary, I do find your poop example intriguing as it's probably one of the worst examples possible for currency:

- literally anyone can make it

- it is unsanitary and can spread disease

- it is difficult to measure

On the plus side:

- it does represent (some amount of) labor


I think it would be an amazing currency.

- Good alternative to Universal Basic Income since people can produce it themselves directly.

- The unsanitary aspect of it will help prevent too large accumulation of it. People will have a stronger incentive to put their money to work instead of hoarding it.

- Not difficult to measure since it can be weighed and banks could print paper bills that are backed by it using weight as the units of account.

The main downside I can see is that it will encourage people to eat more and demand for laxatives would grow significantly.


And like any fine metal you can polish it! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yiJ9fy1qSFI


Fiat money is not issued by states, it is issued by the Federal government.

I think you are confusing the word "state".




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