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His inaction and obfuscation caused thousands and thousands of people to die from COVID.

He publicly condoned shooting unarmed protesters, and let his DOJ kidnap people in unmarked vans.

He left the Paris climate accords.

These are catastrophic.




You left out being impeached for blackmailing a friendly country for military aid so they would dig up dirt on his rival. Also, gutting federal agencies like the EPA, silencing reports from national labs which were critical of the coal industry, and installing Dejoy as head of the Postal Service who immediately had mail equipment destroyed directly before an election which was known to most likely have large amounts of mail in ballots. Not to mention Dejoy has large stock in companies that would profit from the destruction of the Postal Service.

Edit: forgot to say numerous people close to him and his campaign have gone to jail. Steve Bannon, Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, Roger Stone...etc.


What do you think of what happened with the Steele Dossier?


A better question: what do you think happened with the Steele Dossier? A campaign funding opposition research isn't a problem. That the Dossier may or may not have lead to a legitimate intelligence case being opened against a Trump associate also isn't a problem. John McCain hand delivered it to the FBI. There is no fruit of the poisoned tree here.


That you don't see that something is wrong when an intelligence agency fabricates fake evidence in order to advance a political agenda against other parts of it's own government is chilling.


>fabricates fake evidence

Source? Sounds like conspiratorial nonsense.


sure.

glen greenwald: http://archive.is/58vqu

matt taibbi: https://archive.li/acKAO


While those articles certainly highlight serious problems in spying oversight and a reckless FBI, they do not support your characterization of "fabricated fake evidence in order to advance a political agenda". For example, the pee tape doesn't represent even a majority of the potentially damaging information. While the FBI probably overstated the trustworthiness of the document, those articles don't claim the document itself was an outright fabrication or that none of the claims had any credibility.


You're splitting the line quite finely


I think "what does this have to do with Trump's numerous crimes?". What a strange question to ask.


the whole thread doesn't have a lot of focus, but the OP posted about "The country may be divided. But those divisions are manufactured and exacerbated over the last 4 years by a made-for-TV president." So the context here is about division in the country and investigation of what is either causing that and/or causing people to feel like that.


For seven weeks in 2017 it was the official policy of our government to remove migrant children of all ages from their parents and house them in a cage. Even now the inevitable bureaucratic messups have lost some of these kids; it's possible these families will literally never be whole again. Everyone has their own horrors I guess, but this was what did it for me.


Obama started this.


https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/...

> The idea that this is simply a continuation of an Obama-era practice is "preposterous," said Denise Gilman, director of the Immigration Clinic at the University of Texas Law School. "There were occasionally instances where you would find a separated family — maybe like one every six months to a year — and that was usually because there had been some actual individualized concern that there was a trafficking situation or that the parent wasn’t actually the parent."

> Once custody concerns were resolved, "there was pretty immediately reunification," Gilman told NBC News. "There were not 2,000 kids in two months — it’s not the same universe," she added.

That's not to say that the Obama administration didn't do some other cruel things to migrant families in an effort to deter them. Some of which got smacked back down by the courts, too. But separating families as a matter of policy was not one of those policies.


Trump destroyed the United States' Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty with Russia. Without the treaty, Russia and USA can make as many nuclear bombs as they want, as long as they say they will only use them on intermediate-range missiles.

This single action by Trump imperils all of humanity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermediate-Range_Nuclear_For...

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/08/02/what-does-the-demise-of...


Total nonsense. Europe has just as many if not more cases. The idea that another president would have made any difference is pure wishful thinking.


Under Obama, the pandemic response team that Trump disbanded stopped SARSv1 (COVID is also known as SARSv2) from spreading out of China under essentially identical circumstances.

They also stopped Ebola from spreading, which is at least an order of magnitude worse than COVID.

That team operated internationally with the cooperation of local governments. When it was disbanded, many people warned the administration that it was leaving a huge public health gap, and that the decision would result in unchecked pandemics.

We’re lucky to have ended up with a COVID pandemic, and not something much worse.


Define worse. Ebola is much deadlier, but its kind of hard to spread a virus that causes you to bleed from your face.


Ebola’s R value is 2, which is enough to create large outbreaks if left unchecked.

The death rate is 50%, which is 100x higher than COVID’s 0.5% (which has been lowered to 0.125% with improved hospital care).

In the absence of a coordinated pandemic response, I count that as “worse”.


Many problems with your comment. First SARS occurred in 2003 before Obama. It was stopped primarily because it does not spread asymptomatically. SARS-COV-2 does. That is the difference.


> They also stopped Ebola from spreading, which is at least an order of magnitude worse than COVID.

Pure unmitigated ignorance.


There are many countries that have completely contained COVID, on multiple continents. It is not "wishful thinking" to follow in the footsteps of many other countries. If we could do as well as the African countries that we assisted with past Ebola outbreaks, we would have saved so many lives.


Great I can't wait for Biden to stop it.


To stop the virus, we need to treat it as a bigger enemy than we do each other. And it may be too late now, the easy time to stop it was at the beginning, when it would have taken far less mobilization and resources. Now, no matter how hard we clamp down it will remain in pockets.

I do not believe that Biden is capable of enacting any policy that will lead to the (simple) social behaviors that can stop the disease in its tracks. He can do some policy on the edges.

But if we do stop the virus, it won't be because of Biden, it will be because of the actions of a huge number of people, across the political spectrum, and a grand unification of people. We will need to build a massive virus stopping machine, and such projects are never the result of one person, anymore than the space shuttle being attributable to a single person.

I think it's possible, but I do not think it's likely.


I really don't get this constant "he didn't do anything" and "it's too late" talking points.

Nancy Pelosi was walking around Chinatown in SF after it was well known that there was an outbreak going on overseas.

The NYC department of health advised that it was perfectly safe to attend Chinese New Year celebrations shortly after.

When POTUS stopped international travel earlier than the media decided it was a legitimate issue, his political opponents called him a racist. Then you'll argue, "but but the nyc outbreaks trace to Europe!!" And I'll argue back that China has industrial factories in Italy, and ask you how the virus got to Italy/Europe in the first place. And you still won't get it. It's like the left just constant ignores common sense and hides behind reddit-teir "you got a source for that" nerdery.

All of this happened less than a year ago. It is well within living memory.


As a scientist, it causes me immense pain to see these types of points trotted out as having any sort of relevance to stopping the spread of Covid19.

Literally nothing you said here has any relevance to effective policy for stopping Covid19. Nothing. Somehow, in our modern society, you have been able to consume a very large diet of information, and have been misinformed about its basic suitability as information.

There's only one way to stop this thing: by paying attention to evidence and our best understanding, and to put aside our silly political games that have not bearing on reality. Or worse, political games that think they are the reality.

I hope that as part of the healing process, science starts having a seat at the table in these discussions.


https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-fire-pandemic-team/

You're seriously going to claim that the US wouldn't have had a better response to a pandemic had they actually had a pandemic response team?


Seems like the claim that this pandemic response team would have made a difference is the assertion that needs to be proven. I'm not terribly convinced that a bit more beurocracy would have made any difference at all.


You're not sure a team full of scientists who are experts in infectious diseases could've come up with a better plan than doing absolutely nothing? Or lying to the public about the severity of the disease? Or refusing to issue a national mask mandate? Or shutting down travel... only to China, not Europe who was also having a massive outbreak? Or flying people home on a commercial flight without any sort of precautions taken to separate them from the rest of the passengers?

You really think that would've all played out the same? I assume you didn't vote for Trump, and your opinion is based in facts and logic, and not a misguided attempt at defending his laughably embarrassing attempts at downplaying a pandemic ravaging our nation.

PS: Where's that vaccine he promised? Or were you one of the ones that thought the virus was just going to "magically disappear" after the election?


Well the WHO did such a great bang up job on letting the world know the severity, I'm sure this team would have also "followed the science" and decided it wasn't a threat either. This is government employees you are thinking that are going to do a competent job.




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