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I want this to be true, by the way. As I mention in some other comment, I think Python is rather mediocre as an actual language for building software. Its appeal cannot be denied, but a majority of my peers would really like to use a language that has its tooling shit together.

Python is the only language I've had to deploy that makes me understand why anybody would want to use containers.




I love Python, and it's my first and most-used language, but I definitely agree. I want something that takes the best parts of Python, is compatible with most existing Python code, and has a much better tooling ecosystem and better options for static typing.

Spending a bit of time with Rust's tooling, static analysis, and "if it compiles it's pretty likely to work" (at least way more so than with Python) definitely emphasizes a lot of Python's flaws.


Have you tried writing python as if types were mandatory? It takes a lot of discipline but it's a totally different beast with strict mypy checking.


Yes, I've started to more in the past few weeks, and I've enabled stricter Pylance checking in VS Code. It's definitely giving me more Rust-like productivity and reliability improvements.


Maybe we should separate the evolution of languages from the evolution of package/versioning systems. They do tend to go hand in hand, but that has more to do with logistics and organizational issues than any technical necessity.


But like R has a great packaing system, and it copied Perl, which is much older than Python. Meanwhile Python has a bunch of incompatible packaging systems which cause so much pain to so many programmers.

Did you know that pip won't even resolve dependencies, and will break your programs silently? I certainly didn't, because Python wasn't my first language and therefore I assumed that the package manager will handle dependencies.

Like seriously, when a language designed by statisticians for statisticians (R) has a better packaging story than everyone's second favourite language, something has gone horribly wrong.


> R has a great packaing system, and it copied Perl

I almost used Perl as an example of Python's inverse - a crappy language wrapped in a good packaging system. For its time CPAN was pretty great. All of the things today that people are likely to hold up as being better drew inspiration from it.

> which is much older than Python

Perl 1987, Python 1989. So yes it's older, but much older?


Fair, I realised that the difference wasn't that large after I posted.

I'm just so annoyed by Python's (lack of a) packaging system that it makes me prone to hyperbole. It's been frustrating me at work all week, and I suspect that it will be a low-grade annoyance for me in my career for the next few years, as I'm a Data Scientist and hence need to deal with Python a lot.


pip is a packaging system, and it ships out of the box with Python. It may not be the best one around, but there certainly isn't a lack of one.


Does it ensure that packages in the environment are consistent with one another? If not, I'm not sure what it does that curl won't do.


curl won't resolve dependencies.




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