For those interested, hourly pay for prisoners in the US can legally be as low as $0.04. Three orders of magnitude away from citizen wages, i.e. a citizen working 3 days ~= 10 years prison labor.

https://www.prisonpolicy.org/blog/2017/04/10/wages/

Yes, as I said above, and as the link I gave said, the pay is insultingly, embarrassingly low. And yet work release programs remain highly popular among US inmates. It allows inmates -- even violent felons in some cases -- to do meaningful work outside the prison, gain credit for their debt to society, and gain work experience they can use later. Yes the pay is way too low, and yes these voluntary programs are often very valuable to the inmates. Both these things can be true simultaneously. Read the link I gave you for a start.

You got anything more to say about your bullshit comparison to concentration camps? Or are you going to go on pretending that low wages was your only point?

It is reasonable to point out that the US currently has prisons with arguably poor conditions. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50114468

This is an argument over the term ‘concentration camp’ in effect.

Do we concentrate the most ‘criminals’ into ‘camps’ where they can ‘work’ and ‘play’? Arguably yes.

All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison system enough to not change it. It has gotten so large that it removes a leg to stand on when criticizing other countries for imprisoning people.

Edit: Professors call these places gulag’s: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49323320

So maybe it would be a better term to describe what the Chinese are doing, since they clearly aren’t filling trains with bodies to be sent to the incinerator. (which is what the term concentration camp brings to mind in the west).

Perfect, you've moved the goalposts so that all prison systems across the world count as "concentration camps". Now you can use your fallacy to defend China's worst human rights abuses from any and all criticism, because you can claim that anyone's judgement is tainted by the mere existence of their own country's "concentration camp" prison system.

> All that is true is that the U.S. loves its very large prison system enough to not change it.

There have been literally hundreds of criminal justice reforms enacted in recent years, in all fifty states and at the federal level, covering all aspects of the American criminal justice system; drug laws, courts, bail, and yes prison reform. Guess which country the author of The New Jim Crow is from? I'll give you a hint if you need it. Criminal justice reform is a one of the most bitterly fought issues in American politics, and in case you haven't noticed, the fights are recently getting more serious.

It's clear to me that, regarding this particular topic, you have no idea what you're talking about.

> It has gotten so large that it removes a leg to stand on when criticizing other countries for imprisoning people.

Whose "leg" are you talking about? Mine? Michelle Alexander's? It may surprise you to learn that the US is home to over two hundred million adults, who do not all think alike or speak with the same voice. It may also surprise you that many American who are passionate about prison reform here at home are also passionately opposed to China's ongoing ethnic cleansing. I can confidently predict that those people will continue to speak out against China regardless of mensetmanusman's disapproval.

You're completely missing the point. Yes, the American criminal justice system needs a lot more reform, and yes progress on civil rights issues is painfully slow. No shit, congratulations for noticing.

There are millions of people in this world who care deeply about humans rights, and these people are the only reason any progress is ever made, whether in America or China or anywhere else. Do you really think you're helping by shitting on them because the progress hasn't yet achieved your satisfaction?

If I may offer a suggestion, either do something to join the fight, or shut the fuck up about it.