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What a sovereign nation, as an abstract entity, can do, is distinct from what its executive leader can do.

The only time they happen to coincide is, by definition, in the case of autocracy.




I think there is a strong case to be made that WeChat is, as a practical matter, a public minister as defined in Article 2. Therefore, the executive has the right to refuse their presence in the US.

All Chinese companies operate under the direction and control of the CCP; we can arrive at the conclusion that a company is a public minister if companies are people, and they act at the behest of their home government.

https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-2/32-the-cond...


There absolutely is a case. I was not meaning to imply that there wasn't. I was meaning specifically to address the idea that the rights of a sovereign nation can be invoked to decide whether any particular action legal under the laws of the United States.

As long as the USA remains a country that is bound by rule of law rather than rule of dictate, one can't reasonably argue with due process simply by invoking the fact that the USA is a sovereign nation, because the US government is comprised of more than just its executive leadership. The executive branch is bound by laws as drafted by the legislative branch and interpreted by the judicial branch.


Agreed completely, so I don’t think the judicial review here is unnecessary or unwarranted.


To clarify the CCP control of companies:

1) The CCP has to have a representative on the board. The ccp say it's like a union rep(!) since they are communists. But they don't have a veto, just a vote like other board members.

2) This condition is only for companies over a certain size.

3) This also applies to large foreign companies not just domestic.


> 2) This condition is only for companies over a certain size.

That may not be the case for much longer:

"According to the new provisions, private firms will need a certain amount of CCP registered employees, which is already a long-term practise in large private firms but not smaller ones."

https://www.asiatimesfinancial.com/ccp-announces-plan-to-tak...


They may technically not have a veto within the company, but that’s not really that relevant.

1. The CCP has advanced access to the company’s plans.

2. The representative can always say something like, “this would meet with disapproval by the party”.

It’s not a formal veto, but it is an implied threat.


Can you link reports on this or the source where you obtained this information?

In the US at least, the claim that “all Chinese companies are controlled government” is thrown around way too often without evidence backing it up. People seem to accept it as common sense that doesn’t need fact-checks anymore. I’m not saying you are one of them; I just wish we all verify non-obvious claims for our own benefits


You actually think that the largest communication app in China isn't under complete control of the CCP and that they don't have complete access to every transaction that flows through Wechat servers?


This seems like a ‘citation needed’ kind of dismissal.

These are obvious consequences of being required to have a CCP board member.

The government having a board member is by definition a form of government control.

These are not ‘non-obvious’ claims and as such they don’t need citations.

If you want to argue that somehow these conclusions aren’t reasonable, by all means do so. But no citation is needed.


Since people don’t seem to think this is obvious - the board has access to the company’s plans, therefore so does the CCP if there is a CCP board member.

Board members have access to the CEO and other managers, therefore the CCP board member can obviously make statements to management about what the CCP does and does not approve of.

No citation is needed to know that these are the consequences of having a CCP board member.


Same thing as a political officer. They don't officially have a veto, but if you cross them, you'll find yourself promoted to permanent deputy assistant undersecretary at the branch office in Nyingchi.


Wait! I heard that the US is a "democracy country" and "believe rule of law"?


[flagged]


Yikes, we ban accounts that post like this, and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24537258, for obvious reasons.

I'm not going to ban you for these because everyone has bad days and you've posted good things before. But can you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and avoid the flamewar style on HN? We'd appreciate it.


You're right of course, I apologize. Bad day.


But in this case, the executive has the authority to ban things based on national security.

And if that power isn't properly applied, the courts will intervene.

What "autocracy" are you referring to?


GP didn't say the US is an autocracy; they said that the top-level comment implied a US autocracy. In this case, yes, the courts intervened.


An executive in conflict with the courts is an unstable government and an autocratic tending executive.


What? No. That's the point of the system. It's the checks and balances part.

Or are you arguing Obama was an autocrat because his decisions were struck down by the Supreme Court?

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/the-sup...


On the contrary, if the courts are powerful protectors of rights they'll inevitably come into conflict with the executive. I'd like to see a touch fewer conflicts than American presidents tend to get into, but if I saw no conflicts I'd conclude that the courts just have no power to stop the executive from doing what he'd like.


The Executive Branch of the USA has always held the power to direct the nation’s relationships with foreign powers.

If you feel that that’s autocratic, then your beef is with the folks back in 1776.


The Constitution says the Senate has confirmation powers for Ambassadors (consider Weld), it has consent on treaties and Congress declares war.




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