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From the beginning of this I never understood how there could be any legal basis whatsoever for the ban. Apparently that's because there was none.


The President's job is managing foreign affairs including foreign agents operating in the USA. There are disputable details with regard to proportionality, but not in the broad strokes.


That's correct. The law that the executive order cites targets financial transactions and specifically exempts information services.


You are reading it correctly but misinterpreting the implication.

At the minimum, you can’t publish an app on the Google’s or Apple’s app stores without a financial transaction. It’s essentially impossible to conduct business abroad (even “free” business) if you can’t legally transact.


If China can block Facebook, Google, etc., then why can't the US block Chinese apps?


Because there is no law in the Constitution saying that "If China can block Facebook, Google, etc., then the US can block Chinese apps"

Congress can pass such a law and the President can sign it.


> If China can block Facebook, Google, etc., then why can't the US block Chinese apps?

Because we are a nation of laws, not autocratic whims.


Because "we can do it because some other country does it" is not a good thing. China can, and has arrested US citizens without due process, should we now be able to arbitrarily detain Chinese citizens in retaliation?


Don't give them ideas.


While I don't agree with surveillance capitalism, this does not seem the way to win while maintaining the moral high ground? Why not something like GDPR and more transparency.It may end up accomplishing the same thing, while providing more protection to US (and world) citizens. We don't have to stoop to their levels, we're trying to avoid authoritarianism, not fight fire with fire.


Because the Chinese apps aren't illegal in US law.


Like so many other attempted Trump executive actions, it really needs to be passed by Congress. Trump doesn't even have anyone competent in the White House telling him what he can and can't do.


Well this is the situation we're in because everyone since Bush abused executive orders. Obama's DACA order is a great example. It grants "Equitable Entitlements," which are pretty much Unalienable Rights.

Imagine if a president after Lincoln decided that they were going to reverse the Emancipation Proclamation. Would they be in authority to do so? Probably. But you're taking away rights at that point. DACA promised a bunch of kids with, "Hey, give us your names and addresses and we promise not to ever deport you," without a clear path to residence/citizenship for their family members.

It's a Pandora's Box that's been abused by both parties and it's going to come back to bite everyone at some point.


> Imagine if a president after Lincoln decided that they were going to reverse the Emancipation Proclamation. Would they be in authority to do so? Probably. But you're taking away rights at that point.

The emancipation proclamation was in no way a binding document. It was simply a "proclamation" of the stated position of the executive branch regarding slavery during Lincoln's administration, that they would cease to recognize its' legitimacy as law. The 13th amendment, (an act of congress which created a new law), legally freed the slaves. DACA is a very similar situation. An executive may choose which laws to prioritize for enforcement, and in this case that's exactly what Obama did. The president cannot, however, enforce a law that does not exist or that he wishes existed, which Trump is attempting to here.


> The emancipation proclamation was in no way a binding document.

It was a wartime military order during a war in which much of the relevant part of the country came under military occupation. It absolutely was binding.

> It was simply a "proclamation" of the stated position of the executive branch regarding slavery during Lincoln's administration, that they would cease to recognize its' legitimacy as law.

Not only was it not only that, it wasn't at all that. It was an order applied to the rebel territory then under occupation and other rebel territory as it came under occupation.

> The 13th amendment, (an act of congress which created a new law),

The 13th Amendment, as the name suggests, was a Constitutional Amendment. It was proposed to the States by an Act of Congress, but new law was created by ratification by the states. But most slaves were actually freed by the military occupation under the emancipation proclamation, not the 13th Amendment.


The emancipation proclamation was absolutely an executive order. It was issued on September 22, 1862. The 13th amendment didn't get passed federally and ratified by the states until 1865.

I agree the way it SHOULD work is that congress passes laws and executive orders describe how those laws get enacted.

But we've seen more powerful executive orders, with the most dangerous coming about during the W Bush administration. People are fine when a candidate they like uses those increasing powers of "good" but then scream when it's used by Bush/Trump for the same purposes.

Executive orders have limits, specifically to offices that are directly under the Executive Branch (military, homeland security, intelligence, etc.) and so far Trump's orders actually fallen carefully within those limits.

He's been testing the limits of those jurisdictions and federal judges have struck them back. In reality, they should have been doing that years ago with other presidents, but instead we got decades of predator drones, warrantless wiretapping and secret kill lists.


He fired everyone that told him he couldn’t do something.


This looks more like retaliation, because China bans american companies all the time, for much less and for much more despotic reasons.


It’s almost as though it’s the First nation conceived in Liberty shouldn’t take its cues from a despotic regime?


So a federal judge blocks something based on their opinion/interpretation and you interpret that as something having "no legal basis whatsoever"? You look at life through an interesting lens...


> So a federal judge blocks something based on their opinion/interpretation and you interpret that as something having "no legal basis whatsoever"

Given that a federal judge's ruling is the textbook definition of a legal basis...yeah? At least until it goes to a higher court.




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