Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login

Just as many Chinese citizens are proud of their country and culture, there are lots of people in the US who are proud of their country and culture. Are there lots of hypocrites in the United States? Yes. Are there lots of naive people? I mean people still love Trump now while the rest of the world laughs at us. The people in both societies are flawed so let's put that aside.

If we look at both systems (and not as individuals), the US as a whole makes an attempt to do what's right and the system attempts to correct bad behavior. The original founders tried to prevent any one person from usurping power through checks and balances. As Trump tries to upend the country, the Supreme Court restricts what he can do but also tries to ensure the presidency retains power against the legislative branch. Trump has very little power against the Supreme Court and his Supreme Court appointees have voted against him several times already.

Citizens in United States can take to the street to protest against change. Does it always work? Most of the time no. But occasionally, with George Floyd's case, some changes are happening. When individual citizens has their rights taken away, it is possible to sue the government. When this is taken to the Supreme Court and the citizen wins, change happens.

These things will not necessarily get us to a better place but the mechanism for the people to make the change is enshrined in the constitution. Fortunately, this mechanism does eventually guide us to the right place. So far.

As far as I can tell, this kind of corrective behavior does not work in countries like Russia, China and North Korea. It's citizens cannot demand change. What these countries do have is a level of efficiency that democracies will never match. I am envious of this. I am jealous of China's high speed rails and it's ability to erect large cities and hospitals in a matter of months and days.

No doubt United States is in a bad place right now. It has lost its leadership status in the world, it's citizens are sick and dying with a virus that the rest of the world has controlled, and citizens are demanding to not be murdered by their police. However, Trump will most likely be voted out in the fall. Congress is slowly passing laws for better police reform. Counties and states who do not agree with the President covid policies can work against the President's demands to better protect their citizens. Yes there will be problems. Some bad actors will get away with unethical and immoral behaviors. However, the system will attempt to correct the problem. This is why Western democracy is regarded higher than dictatorships in countries like Russia, China and North Korea. The system in United States will give its citizens a better chance to weather the storm than a country with dictatorship.




China is not a democracy. However the notion that Chinese culture is okay with despotism and tyranny is again a limited one.

The Mandate of Heaven is what gives a ruler in China the right to rule. This is not an inherent and automatic right like the divine right of kings.

If a ruler is unable to deliver prosperity and justice it’s completely justified for the ruler to be overthrown.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandate_of_Heaven

Western democracy is really being torn at the seams with Trump and Brexit. Both are policies which any sane outside observer will conclude are extremely harmful in the long term. However because of brainwashing a large portion of the citizenry are okay with it anyway.

Large sections are manipulated via social media by forces both external and internal dipping society into chaos even in the midst of existential threats like covid.

This is like saying yes we invaded a country and unleashed mass death but we also protest against it and make poignant films about how our soldiers felt really bad doing it so it’s all okay and it makes us better than those who don’t. The point is to not do it.

As we speak Iranians are dying in droves in the middle of a pandemic made worse by cruel sanctions imposed by the very people claiming to be enlightened. Imposing sanctions in the middle of a pandemic is nothing short of a crime against humanity.


As a Chinese person, I totally understand that Chinese culture is not ok with tyranny. China's rise to riches can only be done with the efficiencies of a dictatorship. In order to understand China, you must understand China's poverty and shame from foreign rule.

With China's new digital surveillance system, it will be pretty hard to overthrow any dictator. China's control on news and media will ensure loyalty from a large percentage of the population. People who were critical of China's initial Covid response were silenced. Some disappeared. I guarantee you many people of Wuhan did not think that there was prosperity and justice.

Western democracy is being tested but I think the United States constitution is holding up pretty well. Today's Supreme Court ruling was 7-2 against Trump, with both justices nominated by Trump voting against Trump. The Supreme Court is focused on being impartial, so the navigated a ruling that will only release Trump's tax returns after the election.

"We reaffirm that principle today and hold that the President is neither absolutely immune from state criminal subpoenas seeking his private papers nor entitled to a heightened standard of need." - Justice Roberts

The Supreme Court, 9-0 affirmed that the President is not above the law. This ruling will be executed on up and down the government chain. Trump wants to build a wall but he can't. Trump wants to deport DACA immigrants and he can't. While Trump did accomplish a lot for Republicans, the most egregious actions were prevented. Ultimately, Trump's damage can be limited and contained.

I agree that the US does not know how to handle foreign interference through social media. Trump seems like he's allowing it to happen. I'm reserving judgement till the next president gets involved. I also agree that Iran sanctions from Trump is criminal.

Ultimately, no system is perfect. United states and Western democracies are designed to limit the damage, which in turn can limit upsides. Dictatorships are efficient but can easily run afoul. The hope is that we can all choose the system we prefer.


> China's rise to riches can only be done with the efficiencies of a dictatorship.

You probably have heard that propaganda piece so often that you think it's true.

A part of China is rich despite the dictatorship murdering 70 million of its people; miraculously, that democide set back the country only by twenty years. If one wants to blame anything for making people rich, its the effects of unfettered turbo capitalism as practiced after Deng.


"Western democracy is really being torn at the seams with Trump and Brexit"

Really, torn at the seams? Brexit is going fine and now with covid it might work out better in the longrun.

America likes strong leaders. Trump isn't creating a new divide he is navigating the existing fault lines.

More importantly:

China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population: (source AP)

Are you aware of this? What is your,opinion on those events?


> More importantly:

> China forcing birth control on Uighurs to suppress population: (source AP)

> Are you aware of this? What is your,opinion on those events?

It's the same thing they do to the Chinese, which frankly seems worse to me.


Why would that be worse. The Han chinese are keeping the government in power. Without their support this government would fall. They as a group have a vote. But a general policy with fines is not what we are talking about.

Millions of Uighurs are forced into camps. They force them to take pills so they cannot have kids. Then they mass migrate han chinese into the region. One day soon they can say the majority are han chinese.

Europe will start putting pressure on China when they realize building this direct road to London China is building is the reason for the suffering they will impose punishment. Meanwhile the US has started creating a different supplies chains excluding China. When grow slows what will happen in China? Will the people revolt? Going to be an interesting 10 years.


> But a general policy with fines is not what we are talking about.

Forced sterilization applies to the Han too.


Dictatorships can work great, but all it takes is one bad dictator and you are hosed. E.g. the complete ceasation of progress in China once emporers decided to cut off access to the outside world and outlaw logic.


That does seem like it would have been bad, if it had happened.




Consider applying for YC's Spring batch! Applications are open till Feb 11.

Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: