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I had the fortune of working with Jonathan Sobel at IU and hearing this story.

We were taught to translate a recursive program to continuation passing style in a way that many variables could be translated to registers directly. If I remember correctly, Jonathan translated this from Scheme to C and just compiled that result.




I'd be interested in the actual application of that. Scheme and Lisp don't seem to lend themselves to a powerful object oriented design very much. Since that is IMO the highest order task in programming, I have never been that interested in them.

I guess if you only write number crunching code, then yeah. But if you write an app (web or client) - what good is Lisp?


Clearly, you have never been exposed to CLOS, the most powerful object oriented system of our time.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Lisp_Object_System

There is also Arc, the language Paul Graham and Robert Morris wrote for the web. This site is written it it.

http://arclanguage.org/


Hint: If you're stuck for something to publish and present at an OO conference, just reimplement something done in previous decades with CLOS/Lisp or Smalltalk in a newer 'hipper' language. This is only a half-joke. This actually works!


And then denigrate Lisp for all the features you haven't stolen from it yet.


Well, CLOS does not lend itself to "powerful object oriented design" if you define "powerful object oriented design" as "whatever architecture astronautics is done by Java and .NET programmers", which is exactly what that phrase evokes for me.


Objects and closures are two different perspectives on the same thing. That is, if you're in a language with closures but no objects, you can implement objects using closures. If you're in a language with objects but no closures, you can implement closures with objects.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_programming)


The venerable master Qc Na was walking with his student, Anton. Hoping to prompt the master into a discussion, Anton said "Master, I have heard that objects are a very good thing - is this true?" Qc Na looked pityingly at his student and replied, "Foolish pupil - objects are merely a poor man's closures."

Chastised, Anton took his leave from his master and returned to his cell, intent on studying closures. He carefully read the entire "Lambda: The Ultimate..." series of papers and its cousins, and implemented a small Scheme interpreter with a closure-based object system. He learned much, and looked forward to informing his master of his progress.

On his next walk with Qc Na, Anton attempted to impress his master by saying "Master, I have diligently studied the matter, and now understand that objects are truly a poor man's closures." Qc Na responded by hitting Anton with his stick, saying "When will you learn? Closures are a poor man's object." At that moment, Anton became enlightened.


I'm not so enlightened as Anton. I think that closures are closures and objects are just syntax sugar over closures


You will want to read this[1] and the links in there. (And note the names of those involved in the thread; those were the days...)

[1] http://people.csail.mit.edu/gregs/ll1-discuss-archive-html/m...


A lot of people would disagree, and hence the koan.

Personally, I see closures as objects that the compiler cooks up on your behalf. This coming from a compiler background, where said compiler is usually implemented in C++ :P.




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