Counter counter point: I am a father. Took 5 months off. Baby was breastfed. How? Mom was pumping milk at work, after her lunch break. We put it in the freezer. I was waking it up and giving it with a bottle to my daughter. Diapers/food and so on can be taken care by both genders. It is not easy. Actually, at the end, I was looking forward to going back to work and sending my daughter to daycare, once she was 1 year old. It is possible though, and helped me grow up in a sense that I wouldn't have it I didn't go through it.
It also helped us as a couple because I could understand what mom was going through in earlier months and also mom could understand that I am not useless at home and I can take care of our daughter.
With my first child, I took 12 weeks leave, and helped feed the baby using the bottle, and this arrangement worked out great. He didn't care whether it was bottle or breast, was just happy to eat, and still preferred his relationship with his mom more than with me. Oh yes, that's a thing by the way that seems to get lost in these discussions.
With my other 2 kids, they REFUSED the bottle and would ONLY breastfeed. This produced some rather complex scheduling gymnastics that favored my work time over their mother's.
I guess the problem I have with this whole subject is... we really need to restrict the scope of what we even CARE about, when talking about these things. What the Nordic countries have done for parental leave? Awesome. Give people the choice and let them make it.
What happens after that -- even if the long term result is some remaining inequality? -- is not something you or I have a right to change because the opportunity has been given, and reality took over after that. It'd be a bit like complaining about the waves on the beach. I mean sure, you can... but it won't change anything because the ocean won't listen to you. Neither will a baby satisfy the mandates of an ideology over its own wants/needs. If baby decides it only wants mama, well... you'll have to manage. And that has consequences, whether you want to accept that there are or not.
> [the baby] still preferred his relationship with his mom more than with me. Oh yes, that's a thing by the way that seems to get lost in these discussions.
It doesn't get lost. Yes, babies are closer to their mothers. But they are also closer to fathers that interact with them more often than to fathers who interact with them more briefly, all other things equal. And fathers who take more care of their babies also help the mothers not get overwhelmed while at the same time getting to spend more quality time with their babies.
It doesn't have to mean the baby will prefer the father to the mother, which like you said, is unlikely.
To sum up:
- The mom wins, by not being overwhelmed and not being relegated to a housekeeping/babysitting role (if she doesn't want it).
- The father wins, by being more involved in the raising of his kids, and enjoying more time together with them.
- The baby also wins by getting to know his/her father better at an early and fundamental stage.
> helped me grow up in a sense that I wouldn't have it I didn't go through it.
I can certainly relate to this point. My little one has just started nursery and my partner gone back to work. As her companies flexible working is pretty inflexible she works every other weekend (and over January more than that) which means I've suddenly started taking care of the little one on my own much more than I have done until recently.
It's been pretty eye opening if I'm honest. It was way too easy to consider maternity leave a nice long holiday. I wish I'd have had the experience earlier as it would have changed my view on things considerably.
> Baby was breastfed. How? Mom was pumping milk at work, after her lunch break. We put it in the freezer. I was waking it up and giving it with a bottle to my daughter.
This isn't breastfeeding, unfortunately. Your baby was fed breast-milk, but not breastfed. Not a value judgement, but a father feeding a baby from a bottle isn't exactly the same thing developmentally.
This is very condescending. I’m gonna assume the partner nursed the other times she was with the child, like at night. While we can be overly pedantic about the fact that during the day, the baby was bottle fed with breast milk, people have enough stress around breastfeeding as it is; am i doing it right? Does it still count if I pump during the day? Etc etc.
It's not meant to be condescending, and I've updated my comment slightly to try to clarify that. Thanks for pointing out the tone.
I don't think it's overly pedantic in a conversation about fathers spending time as a primary care taker. I think it's actually fairly on topic.
As I understand it (not a doctor), there is a decent bit more going on with breastfeeding than simply the mechanics of delivering milk. Is there a trade-off being made by bottle feeding a baby? Almost definitely. Is it worth it? Sounds like a topic of conversation we could have.
Mothers breastfeed when they can and can pump milk for the times when they can't. Baby still gets the nutritional benefits of breast milk and bonding time with each parent.
Your argument is the same as saying I didn't eat a nourishing home-cooked meal because I heated up last night's leftovers for lunch today. It's still way better than fast food.
> Your argument is the same as saying I didn't eat a nourishing home-cooked meal because I heated up last night's leftovers for lunch today.
Not exactly. My argument is more akin to saying that leftovers aren't the same thing as having a home cooked meal at the dinner table with your family. There is much more going on at a family table than simply nourishing your body.
It also helped us as a couple because I could understand what mom was going through in earlier months and also mom could understand that I am not useless at home and I can take care of our daughter.