You can get just about anything to "scale" given architectural compensations (like scads of containers), so this, ipso facto, doesn't mean much.
> so why not use a language that's nicer to work with?
Well, why not indeed? But here are some thoughts about that.
Nothing is a panacea, Erlang included. Some of the ecosystem is ugly and hard to work with, but improving. Erlang is in a vicious cycle:
* Erlang ecosystem sucks
* Fewer people want to use it
* Fewer people are available to improve the ecosystem
* Fewer people are available to fill jobs for Erlang
* Less demand for Erlang
* Loop
Erlang gives you certain things that no other language I know of does, and these things make it a more robust, easier to program, highly concurrent solution without needing architectural compensations for those things.
That doesn't mean that you can magically throw 1 million TPS at Erlang running on N boxes and your internal queues/mailboxes won't overflow. You, along with the rest of the world, need backpressure handling mechanisms.
What Erlang gives you that Java doesn't is totally decoupled processes that cannot directly affect each other. No mutexes or semaphores, no shared global memory.
It also gives you ultra-lightweight processes that garbage-collect independently of each other, that are cheap enough to start and stop that you can create one per incoming connection and make it completely unaffected by any trouble that any other process gets into. This is not true of threads in Java.
It gives you a supervisory framework that, if used judiciously (yeah, yeah, no true Scotsman, but that doesn't make this any less valid) gives you an ultra-robust system that degrades gracefully under error or overload conditions.
It gives you linked processes that detect a broken process and brings down the others (if you so choose) to avoid leaving orphaned processes cluttering up the system, plus automatic restart, baked in. These do come free of charge when using OTP supervisory frameworks in the recommended fashion.
I think that in some cases, Erlang has been overhyped and people come into it expecting it to magically solve all the hard problems. People that overhype Erlang do it a disservice. For example, the stupid "nine nines" thing was an almost once-off, limited situation in a very constrained environment and I am sure many Erlangists wish it had never been mentioned.
And I wish nobody had ever said the words "let it crash", because they have been misunderstood and taken out of context and again done Erlang a disservice. Just like the phrase "premature optimization is the root of all evil" has caused untold damage when it was (and is often) taken out of context.
The whole "let it crash" thing was shorthand for "if a process cannot reasonably handle and error condition itself, let it die and be reincarnated by the supervisory process". It does not mean "just let everything crash". For example, if you have a system that has long-lived connections, maybe (say) http/2 connections, or XMPP, or Apple push, you most definitely do not want to let it crash without doing everything possible to recover from errors such that the connection stays up under as many error conditions as possible.
But for the most part, a process should not be written defensively and try to recover from errors where it has no business doing so - it should leave it to the supervisor.
I have written Erlang systems, heavily used in production that ran reliably, without crashing, for many months. Usually they were only stopped to do an OS upgrade. They weren't error-free - we found out about some persistent errors by checking the logs occasionally, then fix them and often hot-patch the fix into the production systems.
Again, Erlang is not the world's best programming language or ecosystem. It is, within its design envelope, one of the finest soft real-time distributed multiprocessing environments around when used, like anything, with skill and careful architectural design.
You can get just about anything to "scale" given architectural compensations (like scads of containers), so this, ipso facto, doesn't mean much.
> so why not use a language that's nicer to work with?
Well, why not indeed? But here are some thoughts about that.
Nothing is a panacea, Erlang included. Some of the ecosystem is ugly and hard to work with, but improving. Erlang is in a vicious cycle:
* Erlang ecosystem sucks
* Fewer people want to use it
* Fewer people are available to improve the ecosystem
* Fewer people are available to fill jobs for Erlang
* Less demand for Erlang
* Loop
Erlang gives you certain things that no other language I know of does, and these things make it a more robust, easier to program, highly concurrent solution without needing architectural compensations for those things.
That doesn't mean that you can magically throw 1 million TPS at Erlang running on N boxes and your internal queues/mailboxes won't overflow. You, along with the rest of the world, need backpressure handling mechanisms.
What Erlang gives you that Java doesn't is totally decoupled processes that cannot directly affect each other. No mutexes or semaphores, no shared global memory.
It also gives you ultra-lightweight processes that garbage-collect independently of each other, that are cheap enough to start and stop that you can create one per incoming connection and make it completely unaffected by any trouble that any other process gets into. This is not true of threads in Java.
It gives you a supervisory framework that, if used judiciously (yeah, yeah, no true Scotsman, but that doesn't make this any less valid) gives you an ultra-robust system that degrades gracefully under error or overload conditions.
It gives you linked processes that detect a broken process and brings down the others (if you so choose) to avoid leaving orphaned processes cluttering up the system, plus automatic restart, baked in. These do come free of charge when using OTP supervisory frameworks in the recommended fashion.
I think that in some cases, Erlang has been overhyped and people come into it expecting it to magically solve all the hard problems. People that overhype Erlang do it a disservice. For example, the stupid "nine nines" thing was an almost once-off, limited situation in a very constrained environment and I am sure many Erlangists wish it had never been mentioned.
And I wish nobody had ever said the words "let it crash", because they have been misunderstood and taken out of context and again done Erlang a disservice. Just like the phrase "premature optimization is the root of all evil" has caused untold damage when it was (and is often) taken out of context.
The whole "let it crash" thing was shorthand for "if a process cannot reasonably handle and error condition itself, let it die and be reincarnated by the supervisory process". It does not mean "just let everything crash". For example, if you have a system that has long-lived connections, maybe (say) http/2 connections, or XMPP, or Apple push, you most definitely do not want to let it crash without doing everything possible to recover from errors such that the connection stays up under as many error conditions as possible.
But for the most part, a process should not be written defensively and try to recover from errors where it has no business doing so - it should leave it to the supervisor.
I have written Erlang systems, heavily used in production that ran reliably, without crashing, for many months. Usually they were only stopped to do an OS upgrade. They weren't error-free - we found out about some persistent errors by checking the logs occasionally, then fix them and often hot-patch the fix into the production systems.
Again, Erlang is not the world's best programming language or ecosystem. It is, within its design envelope, one of the finest soft real-time distributed multiprocessing environments around when used, like anything, with skill and careful architectural design.
In my humble opinion.