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How https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19842240 could be captured at a consumer / DIY scale?

From their post:

> The only inputs to make the fuel are CO2 and water (both from the air) and electricity. The only outputs are fuel and oxygen.

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> instead [we] use a process that uses only electricity (no natural gas, etc) and does it at room temperature.

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> we absorb CO2 and water vapor from the air into an aqueous electrolyte.

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> We then react the CO2 in the water with a copper catalyst to directly make alcohols like ethanol, butanol, propanol, etc

> we have a carbon nanotube membrane that replaces it, extracting the alcohols from water in a single step at room temperature

I think the question boils down to: How to remove CO2 from air through "aqueous electrolyte", then convert it to alcohols with "copper catalyst"?




Hmmm, I'm sure the tech is great as well as the scientists and engineering perfecting it. However, I consider this kind of tech important in a post-energy transition world and probably a bad idea to pursue now.

Converting CO2 to hydrocarbons is a fundamentally an endothermic reaction (e.g. it needs energy to happen), so given the limits on process and thermodynamic efficiencies, it will always take more energy to convert CO2 back into gasoline than the energy you got from burning the fuel in the first place. So it seems like what they are proposing is throwing 1x of one type of energy (electricity) at undoing the effects of less than 1x of another type of energy (fossil fuels used in transportation).

Maybe that would be a good idea if we had excess clean electricity generation and couldn't effectively decarbonize transportation, but neither of those are true.

First, we currently need all the clean electricity generation we can get our hands on, and aren't anywhere close to fully decarbonizing the grid to the point where we have excess capacity for stuff like this. Spending 1 megawatt-hour on this for less than 1 megawatt-hour of impact when it could be use to straight up replace 1 megawatt-hour of fossil generation is, I think, a waste of resources right now.

Second, electrification of transportation is starting to happen exponentially, so many of the things you were looking to offset in the short term will probably just cease to exist over the next 10-20 years. The exception is air travel, where the energy density and having propellants are super important, but then you're competing with the price of producing biofuels as a carbon neutral alternative. I suspect that biofuel production will be cheaper, simply because the energy required to grow the algae or convert the cellulose is less than the co2 reversal they are proposing here, but I could be wrong about that for process reasons other than thermodynamics (e.g. capital expenses, etc.). However, focusing on decarbonizing air travel is sooo far down the list of priorities right now. There's so much more lower hanging fruit we should be investing in.

Overall, I think spending energy sucking co2 out of the air and converting it into fuel isn't a good idea right now. Maybe in the medium term if it can compete with biofuels, and definitely in the long term after we've decarbonized as much as possible and still need to remove co2 from the atmosphere. But when I see investment dollars get thrown at this instead contributing towards deploying 1:1 replacements of fossil fuels, I feel a bit sad. Mostly because I know it will be used by propagandists for delaying decarbonization efforts (e.g. "See? We have tech than can undo all these fossil fuels we're emitting! So we're all good and don't need to electrify transportation.").




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