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So they still get your money and you deal with the inconvenience?

Try buying from https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebooks where possible (DRM-free).




There's actually quite a few eBook stores out there with DRM-free options, you just have to know where to look, and they're usually publisher-specific.

Humble Bundle does a weekly Book Bundle. Wiley, O'Reilly, No Starch, and several other publishers all regularly participate with tech books, geek books, comic books, and manga.

No Starch itself deserves a separate mention just because they're awesome. On their own site, if you buy the print book, the eBook comes free, a nice courtesy you won't pick up buying on Amazon. And of course, all of their stuff is DRM-free.

Informit, which is Pearson's programming and IT book site, sells watermarked, but otherwise DRM-free content (if you really care, watermark stripping likely isn't that hard, but as long as they're not trying to tamper with my ability to open the file where I want to, I don't mind watermarks, I ain't a pirate). Informit includes Adobe Press, Cisco Press, Microsoft Press, VMware Press, Sams, etc. I've gotten a lot of textbooks from here.

Manning Publications sells DRM-free too.

If you're a Trekkie, Simon & Schuster sells Star Trek novels DRM-free on their site as well. They have monthly sales that bring a set of them down to 99 cents a piece, which is good, since their standard prices are obscene.

Even Comixology (from Amazon, of course), has joined the DRM-free game, though only for specific publishers. Neither Marvel nor DC participate, mind you, but many of the smaller publishers do.


Wow, thanks for that list, in particular for Simon & Schuster. I am a Trekkie (that's the origin of my handle, too), and I sometimes bought Star Trek e-books on Amazon (most recently, Department of Temporal Investigations series). I'd much prefer to buy DRM-free.

> I don't mind watermarks, I ain't a pirate

That depends; pirates mind water marks on goods they liberated on the high seas, as they reveal the provenance of the merchandise. They like the marks left by water on their equipment, as a proof of prowess.

(Yes, I had to.)


Can I add Tor (publisher of SciFi, Fantasy etc) who also sell most of their eBooks DRM free.


One thing I got confused about was where they actually sell these DRM-free ebooks. (Apparently not on their website.) I went out on a limb and bought some Tor books from ebooks.com and they did turn out to be DRM-free, but there was no way to tell in advance.


Tor's Kindle books are also DRM free, although IIRC the process of exporting the DRM free files outside the Kindle app is somewhat non-intuitive.


Thanks to lawyer back and forth Amazon now has an explicit note on Tor (and Baen and a few other similar publisher titles) making it clear that the file is DRM free at publisher request. It seems like funny language in Amazon's store pages because it sounds like they are treating it like a book defect the way it is written, but the bonus is that you can look for that "warning"/"acknowledgment" when you want that best of both worlds situation where you want to get Kindle features on a book but support a DRM-free publisher over alternatives.


Didn't O'Reilly stop selling ebooks and now only sell paper books and online (Safari)?


They stopped selling ebooks directly to consumers. They still publish them, but now sales are all through third parties. You can get them in PDF or ePub format, DRM-free, from ebooks.com.


Yup. Hence why I only mention them as contributors to Humble Book Bundles. Their site only has what you mention, but Humble Bundle (and other sites like ebooks.com) still sell DRM-free O'Reilly titles outright.


Thanks for mentioning Manning; they are great, love buying from them - including their Early Access versions such as Jon Skeet's C# in Depth.


I try not to forget any once I know they are DRM-free! When music switched to DRM-free, it was pretty much just "Apple says all songs are DRM-free now, but books has been a much longer, harder fight. I think it's important we recognize, promote, and patronize DRM-free retailers and publishers.


Baen is also 100% DRM free. They're kind of a niche publisher but I've bought a few things from them.


Hadn't heard of them before! Thanks for letting me know!


Inconvenience?

It's really not that complicated. You download them from a web interface and you drag and drop them into Calibre (with a de-DRM plugin installed). Done, they're now available together with all the ebooks that you got from other sources.

Having all the purchased ebooks in one place is more convenient for me, not less. The alternative isn't a different book store, it's pirating. While I do have an appreciation for all the books I got from DRM-free places, I don't pick what I'm going to read next based on where it's available. The majority of the books I want to read are available on Amazon, and breaking their DRM is very easy. They wouldn't get my money if any of those two were untrue. I'd probably revert back to pirating.


one could argue that you not paid for that kind of usage and basically pirating in the sense that you use it without permission. It has probably even been denied explicitly to you to break the DRM too. In some countries its even illegal by default to circumvent digital protection measurements.

Just saying, you probably could directly pirate the books too. Putting your money where your rights are respected and you are given the freedom to read your books on any device you want is probably a better idea. Even if it is just to make them grow more.


There are far worse intellectual property offenders all around me, and I've never heard of a single person that ever got into trouble within my country. (Coincidentally, I've heard of dozens of cases of people from my country getting slapped with hundreds of euros of fines for pirating while being abroad, all of them in Germany).

The worst thing that could happen to me is that I could have my Amazon account terminated. Everything physical on Amazon gets slapped with an additional $60-80 of taxes (even if the item itself is $10-$20), so I really don't use Amazon for anything else but its bookstore.

Books take months or years to write, and I want to award that behavior with whichever percentage of my $10 ends up in the author's pockets. Don't get me wrong, if I see a book I want to read on Humble Bundle on Kobo, I'll click on it first. But if I don't, I'll pick Amazon over Google Play Books, this Microsoft's one, or any other DRM-enabled store. Not because Amazon is in any way better than them, but because I know I can break the DRM effortlessly and reliably, while still pitching in something to the author. If that wasn't the case, I wouldn't look for a different store — I'd still be pirating.


I respect your choice and would likely do the same now and then. However, i think it could be beneficial if publishers realize DRM free books get pirated less or even bought more often :)

I said publishers but i am not sure who wants this to be enforced in this case. Its just usually the case that its the rights holder like film studios or music labels but in this case i could see amazon wanting it for themselves too.


> Inconvenience? It's really not that complicated.

You're joking, right? DRM-stripping is inherently unreliable, by definition. It's a last resort only, and we shouldn't be expected to deal with it.


Untrue for ebooks - I doubt a week's gone by without me having done this for years, without a thought or a problem.

> we shouldn't be expected to deal with it

Agreed, and with this as for many other things perhaps one day (after the revolution) we won't. But railing against the universe won't make books available for me to read today.


> "DRM-stripping is inherently unreliable, by definition."

Which definition is that? I've owned an old model 'Kindle Keyboard' for many years. The only thing needed to strip DRM from those ebooks is to type in the serial number of my kindle into calibre. It's never not worked for me; in actual practice it's very reliable.

I must admit though, these days I typically just go to Library Genesis. Because I'm a dirty rotten thief.


By definition?

Not a heavy eBook user but I buy all movies and TV shows through iTunes because I have a (lossless) De-DRM program I can use. Works consistently every time on everything. It may stop working altogether someday, but if that happens I’ll stop buying from iTunes. Until then, the program is 100% reliable.


We're a small independent ebook retailer and we're pushing for DRM-free content with publishers. We've added a DRM-free section to the site: https://www.ebooks.com/drm-free and any search that run you can filter by DRM-free content.

We also offer DRM-free PDFs that are correctly formatted, unlike what you'd get from the Google Bookstore (they convert from ePub). This is particularly important for publishers like O'Reilly who no longer sell copies outside a subscription from their site. Some authors help us out a lot by linking to us directly: https://dataintensive.net/buy.html

It's a slow process getting publishers on board, but more are moving across to DRM-free or social DRM (watermarking) which is a step in the right direction.


"We're a small independent ebook retailer"

How does that work? Independent in a physical sense, generally translates to 1 or very few outlets. Online is only ever going to be 1 outlet. Plus none of the independent bookstore features seem amenable to translating to the internet.

So is it ownership structure? 'vibe'?


> "We're a small independent ebook retailer"

> How does that work?

Small: They're not operating at Barnes & Noble, Waterstones, Amazon, or any other major book retailer level. Measuring by revenue seems reasonable in this sense. Pick arbitrary numbers to define small/medium/large.

Independent: They're not affiliated with any one single publisher.


Yes, I possess a dictionary too :P

Independent suggests more than just being independent, and very little of that seems to be compatible with being an internet company (local, passionate knowledgeable owner, community hub).


I think I may have been wrong regarding independent. Given the context of the thread, it sounds more like platform-independent, rather than publisher-independent. The previous comments are about platform-specific stores.


Do you think I'm reading too much into the word then?

If some one told me about a small independent record store, or small independent coffee shop, I would have certain expectations.

Platform independent seems reasonable given the context though.


I don't understand the question. All online shops have one outlet. That doesn't mean the distinction between small and large doesn't exist anymore.


I was picking up on the independent aspect, not the size aspect, although independent bookshops don't tend to be national chains.

Independent in this context includes many different things, most of which I'm not sure are particularly relevant to an online business.

You don't get a knowledgeable enthusiastic shop owner to talk to, it isn't a gathering space, it doesn't keep money in the local community.

So I'm asking what independent actually means in an online context.


Kobo is not always DRM Free. I see plenty of mention about Adobe DRM on a lot titles, especially those published by big five.


Thanks for the tip, will consider it next time. I guess I was non-mainstream enough to look into breaking DRM, but not non-mainstream enough to consider less popular sources.


>Try buying from https://www.kobo.com/us/en/ebooks where possible (DRM-free).

I have a Kobo. Every book I've bought from there has DRM.


The books I've bought through Kobo are DRM-encumbered. They work on my PocketBook, but only after I set up some Adobe DRM thingamabob. Not sure whether it's easy to break.


Good point. I actually looked for some "No DRM" marketing on the website before I linked it and didn't find it, so I wondered if I was even correct that it was one of their objectives. I've only noticed that the books I've bought from them had no DRM and that's apparently unreliable. Too bad.

Thankfully, better options have been linked in the thread.


It's often not possible, particularly with niche books from small publishers. Many of my sailing books, for example, were available from Amazon only. A DRM copy is always my last choice, but I'll get one and strip DRM if necessary.


Kindle is actually very convenient. I wouldn't mind buying elsewhere but the reason I usually buy on Amazon is convenience.


So they get the money and you deal with the inconvenience of getting the files onto your ebook reader...?




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