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Yes. People need to understand that are whole teams of people whose full time jobs are to get this kind of thing passed. They don't care what's right or wrong. The Nuremberg defence is perfectly acceptable in business, unfortunately.



Where do we get the names of these people?


You can search the EU transparency register. For some EU lobbying activities participation in the register is mandatory.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/headlines/eu-affairs/2...


Lobyplag publishes the documents different companies/govs hand out: https://lobbyplag.eu/docs



Sonnenborn and his "Die Partei" are a blessing in disguise.

It's also extremely weird how a satire political party regularly makes the most sense by bluntly stating like it is.

Maybe that's the actual secret to proper politics: Saying it like it is, spiced up with some fun.


Unfortunately that doesn't match 100% with the official roll call vote results.


On the EU their front-line must be registered, doesn't it?

It's a matter of finding out how; you can probably just ask the right people and you will have your answer.


We need more thinking like this.


Plus names of the businesses who support these destructive laws, so their products can be avoided.


Just look up any movies showing in cinemas, music on the radio and reviews in newspapers. That is the same companies behind the lobbying.


Peacefully petitioning the government for redress of grievences -- whether you agree with them or not -- should be respected.

It's not clear what you intend to do with these names, but I don't see anything good coming out of it.


While I recognize and admire the sentiment, I'm not sure I agree with the practice in law. Legislation should be as transparent as possible since it affects a populace and doesn't exist in a vacuum among involved parties.

As to what intent there is with those names, it could be boycotting products/services from certain organizations -- which is a very valid and legal form of protest.


Why do you need the names of people to boycott? Just get the names of the companies involved.


Having names are useful to force them to have some skin in the game.


You shouldn’t be able to hide when you’re assisting with the dismantling of democracy.

If you’re fearful of your name being public, associated with this line of work, you should probably reevaluate your actions.

If you support or participate in the further tightening of copyright (when considering how extreme copyright law already is), you are the enemy, and citizens are well within their rights to publicly document your actions.


When you make bad ideas your enemy, you can promote real change and bring more people peaceably to your side. When you make people your enemy, you are likely to make things worse.


So what are your thoughts on the “war on terror,” the “war on drugs,” and the “war on poverty?”

When has attacking an abstract idea ever accomplished anything?


How about womens' suffrage?

Who was the enemy in that movement? Did making lists of enemies help? Or was it more battle of ideas where people's minds were changed pver time?


A worthwhile counterexample at the time, but imagine how it would play out today. If the suffrage advocates didn't turn it into a personal fight, the other side would. The opponents would win some battles, then they would lose some bigger ones... and then they'd do what's necessary to take over institutions ranging from market-leading TV news channels to the Supreme Court, and fix the "problem" once and for all. These days, anyone who tries to take the high road in politics finds that it ends at the top of a cliff.

Unfortunately I have a feeling we're about to see this scenario unfold with respect to gay marriage and LGBTQ issues in general. Theocrats do not like to lose, any more than copyright maximalists do.


This has not been my experience engaging in the political process in the US, both on individual campaigns and when working on specific issues (drug decriminalization and incarceration and gerrymandering, specifically).

Whether people are married to their ideas through money or ideology, you are left with little recourse. History is written by the victor, not the noble.


Think beyond the single issue and realize that making enemies of people has cascading effects that ultimately polarize the nation and close you off to any possibility of modifying your opinions or learning new things.


At least with my nation, the US, while neither side is really for the people one side is so vastly against the interests of the majority in general and the interests of me and mine in particular that I expect there is no reasonable middle ground.

When one group wants people like yourself to lose medical care and die where is the middle position?

Ultimately I expect them to eventually react violently to losing power and have to be put down by force in order to preserve some notion of democracy.

On perhaps your side of the pond it seems that one side wants to strangle the medium for culture and civilization in order to make a few bucks in hopes that a fraction will stick to their hands. These people are surely personally your enemy whether you recognize it or not.


They aren't peacefully petitioning; the're bribing lawmakers. Also, that's a right that people have, not corporations.


Then get a list of the names of the corporations not the people. Maybe that can lead to a boycott, which is fine.

It's kind of scary to start assembling lists of peoples' names that are your opponents.


>assembling lists of peoples' names that are your opponents

If you want to defeat your opponents, a great thing to do. Keep track of them. The best service you can give to an enemy, is to forget him.

>My opponents are bad laws and bad ideas. Let's make lists of those.

Don't you think that bad ideas are possessed by bad people?

In my view of the world, the root of all good and bad are the people. People's deeds and ideas don't live separate lives from physical human beings having/doing them.


My opponents are bad laws and bad ideas. Let's make lists of those.

Individual people may have both good ideas and bad ideas, and those may change over time.

Lists of opponents' names are a really bad solution because they ignore the distinction between people and ideas.


Ideas can’t be shamed or ostracized. Ideas don’t respond to incentives. Ideas can’t engage in debate. Trying to fight ideas is futile without also opposing the people with boots on the ground implementing the ideas.


Corporations don’t do things. People within corporations do things. You’re not going to get anywhere with a protest website that says: “BigMediaCorp is trying to take away your rights!” But, if it says “Mark Smith, VP Government Affairs at BigMediaCorp, who lives at 155 Spruce St., Los Angeles, leads the team that lobbies to take away your rights!” ...you’ve got a real person to oppose who does real things.


I'd publish the name and maybe a small photo of the person so that he/she can get opinions by people he/she happens to see during the day, but adding any personal address would be like inviting criminals to stalk the person. No matter how much we hate those corrupt lowlives, we must fight them from within the law fence. Keep in mind that those people control most of the information sources, and those they don't control are mostly aligned on their side anyway, so it is safe to assume that everything will be used against us. A news announcement such as: "Activist burns politician's house. All safe including their loved puppy" (cue photos showing the puppy big sweet eyes) won't bring a single person to sympathize with the cause, but rather make even more enemies. This is a war where every move has to be planned with extreme care; hic sunt leones.


Politicians don't really deserve any privacy. These people should be under public scrutiny at all times. This isn't some private company that you can choose not to do business with if you don't like it. They have the power to pass laws that will apply to everyone. People should keep track of them and denounce them publicly and loudly when they do things people don't like.


What's scary about it? The risk individual (natural) persons might be rude to each other based on political opinions?

Dude — already happening.


Yes, like that guy was "rude" to several people on the staff of the Capital Gazette in Annapolis on June 28.


It's ludicrous to believe that publishing the names of people and companies requesting a change in law is somehow nefarious. People should be happy to have their names associated with laws they support, and if they aren't, that definitely speaks to the desirability of the law for the rest of us.


I fully agree any protest should be peaceful, but transparency is important.

Let's imagine a world where as you suggest, corporation names are revealed but not individuals. Well, where does that leave us? Maybe I'll just go as myself instead of my company. I won't represent my company, I just happen to be its CEO, its chief lobbyist, or whatever.

So no, we'd need full transparency. This kind of thing is common among various branches of democratic governments. Presidents' schedules are usually mostly public, fundings of various sorts are public, etc.

Opaqueness leads to darkness.


>It's not clear what you intend to do with these names, but I don't see anything good coming out of it.

Just demonstrating that you know a lot of even remotely private information about somebody is a very effective intimidation method.




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