Hacker News new | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submit login
Dick is a bad manager (ieatpaste.com)
94 points by ia on Sept 29, 2010 | hide | past | favorite | 66 comments



He’ll assign a task, tell you exactly how you should do it, and then "stop by" repeatedly to check on progress.

Let's not forget the rest of the story: Dick is not a dick by accident. He chooses this management style to keep his people on edge. Do you recognize any of these other things...

1. Dick will omit one or two critical considerations about the task that you have no way of knowing. You're expected to gain this knowledge by osmosis or through the ether. It's your fault, not his, if you don't.

2. Dick assigns no priorities to any of the tasks he assigns. Since by definition, there will always be something not done, he will choose that thing to delve into. You can't win.

3. Dick waits until 4:55 to start a conversation. Once is an instance. Twice is a coincidence. After that, it's a pattern.

4. Dick only uses first names. If you don't know who he's talking about, you're the idiot.

5. Dick will pull his people off partially finished projects all the time for the emergency du jour. Then he will act as if he never did this when the bumped project is not done. Again it's always your fault, not his.

6. Dick will always find some outlying case no one has ever thought about and drill down 8 levels deep until he's the only one who knows what he's talking about. Everyone else is an idiot.

7. If Dick wants something, he yells. If he doesn't get it, he yells louder. If he still doesn't get it, he cusses.

8. When you least expect it, Dick is manic. The greatest guy in the world, as happy as can be, and everyone's buddy. Don't worry, things will be back to normal tomorrow.

9. Dick never uses formal functional specifications and rarely commits to anything in email. That way, when things are not built exactly the way they are needed, he can't be pinned down. It's always someone else's fault.

10. People come and people go, but Dick is still a dick and always will be.


11. You keep Outlook calendar up to date with all your meetings, but Dick will schedule his own (useless) meetings over them because he thinks he is that important. Dick will never keep his Outlook calendar up to date as that would allow you to know where he will be.


11b) Dick likes to show his supervisors how much work he does so he schedules meetings with his "team" at 7:30AM and 5:00PM, then takes a long lunch.


Was wondering where the "Machiavellian management style" came in, since the article merely describes a pointy-haired micromanager.

Your items are Machiavellian indeed -- misguided "cunning duplicity" to "keep his people on edge" by deceiving or manipulating for his personal gain.

See also: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1615524


12. Dick is the manager, you are the programmer. He earns more than you, meaning he is more prized than you by your company. So, he must be doing something right, and you better understand what it is, if you want to get ahead.


A Dick-style manager is a sign that you've already hired some B and C quality employees. Theoretically the only bad hire could be the manager, but I've never seen a company with just one sub-par employee. If people don't get work done, bad managers overreact. Terrible managers will also take the opportunity to overreact when everything is going smoothly. They check on tasks constantly. They run extra meetings so that you need to have something new to report within a 5 hour timespan. They play "Gotcha!" style games. They create a butts-in-seats environment of fear to keep employees working at all times.

In some environments, a close eye is required on an employee or two. Never everybody. When Dick appears, he is a sign that a company is already trending downhill.


I once worked at a company whose culture slogan was "by hackers, for hackers." They're renouned for hiring top-notch programmers, and they really do. Ironically, since hackers don't understand management, they tended to evaluate managers only on their technical skills, not (much) on their people or organizational skills. As an added bonus, the company was in a protected industry and their first product (created in startup mode when they were really small) was a game-changer, so they were wildly successful. So they basically had the attitude "we're really successful, therefore we don't have any big problems or need to make any big changes."

Their second product was a much larger engineering effort than the first, probably 4x as many engineers working on it. I had friends working on it, they had lots of stories about poor management. In the end, it was many years late and over budget, and a year or two after the financial crisis hit, the launch partner pulled out, and the company now had a reputation of not delivering, so nobody else would touch them. (Protected industries are generally conservative, they were lucky to find one customer willing to take a chance.)

tl;dr: good hackers don't know much about management, so when left to choose managers, they're likely to choose bad ones.


> "we're really successful, therefore we don't have any big problems or need to make any big changes."

That sounds almost the exact opposite of almost every decent hacker I've known.


This sounds a lot like a concentrated, high-speed version of what I read happened with Sun. I have only read articles here and there about it though; anybody know a good analysis of Sun's problems?


It's not really like Sun. Sun couldn't accept that it had lost the hardware game a decade before its demise. It had great kit, it was just the market was so vanishingly small that it was never going to support the mothership. It had also lost the will to give "mavericks" the freedom to do their thing. It was firing them a decade out.

"Management" at Sun was pretty tight. It's just that it didn't require that sort of management.


When Dick appears, he is a sign that a company is already trending downhill.

you're wise beyond your years.


Dick is not a bad manager, he is a manager for a different kind of employee. I agree that Dick hurts the productivity of the Creative employee than loves his job. But on the other hand there's lot of employees that if not for Dick, would be all day slacking around doing nothing.

You can say that firing the Slacker is the solution. Unfortunately it's hard to find the Creative and most of the time that person will ask for more money than the Slacker. Plus the Slacker is able to do the job just fine with just a little bit of pushing.

If a Creative is working for Dick it's only natural for him to realize that he is not a right fit for the organization and leave. Eventually leaving only Slackers in the organization, the way it should be.

The problem comes when Dick is a manager in an organization that _requieres_ creativity, then you are doomed.


This is a related tangent that I'd like some input on:

One of the characteristics of "bad management" that's shown here is Dick constantly hovering. At my company, we've arranged the cubicles so that they still offer privacy (walls are about 6 feet high), but that anyone walking by can see what's on the computer screen.

Would you qualify this as hovering? We generally have no issues with casual gchatting, facebooking, stock picking, and have never really reprimanded anyone for that. We also don't do any sort of Internet monitoring.

Two of our employees, however, have taken it upon themselves to re-arrange their desks so that no one can see their monitor. One of them flipped their whole desk setup around (probably spent a good morning working on it), and another employee has turned his monitor 45 degrees - to compensate he has to crane his body at such an odd angle for 8 hours a day that I wonder if I'm going to get a workman's comp claim soon.

Is it bad management if I insist that they go back to their original configuration? I wonder if they think they're trying to pull a fast one over me - do they think I'm an idiot and do not realize what they're doing? Am I a "Dick" manager for wanting to know what they're up to whenever I walk through the room?


I'm not sure about that 45 degree guy, but for turning your cube so that you face out, that's sort of natural. For some people (me...) sitting with your back to a door or an area where people are generally walking is really uncomfortable. I don't like having people behind me without knowing they're there. It's not about slacking, it's just about comfort.


It's also a marker of personal respect and status. If you walk into someone's office, like a lawyer or a doctor or a professor, do you sneak up behind them? No. They're facing the door. The desk is between you and them. Behind them are bookshelves or a panoramic view of the local freeway or diplomas framed and mounted on the wall, and you're face to face. Even receptionists get this courtesy. It's comparatively kind of degrading to work in an environment where as soon as someone enters your workspace they're looking over your shoulder.


Agreed -- I'm the same way.

I can't speak for all the deaf people out there, but personally, I find it uncomfortable to leave my hearing aid in all day, which means I'll often remove it if I'm just working at my desk, and won't hear someone come up behind me.

My last job had an environment where everyone had their backs to the entrance of their cube and I would constantly be startled by people walking up behind me without me hearing or seeing that they were there. It's very unpleasant and actually started making me a little neurotic. It didn't help that the floor in that office was kind of shaky, so you'd also feel it whenever someone walked by.

My current job still has cubes, but the desks aren't attached to the cube walls (we mostly use IKEA Galants) and pretty much everyone has their cube set up so they face out. It's a much more pleasant environment to work in, and since we work in a converted factory it means I look up to a fantastic view of downtown Akron through a bank of windows. I'm much less neurotic now (at least about this... ;)) and all the natural light has actually done a lot to help my sleeping patterns, too.


A desire for privacy need not have a devious root.

When I am working on a nascent idea, I am often fanatical about privacy. I absolutely do not want my most trusted friends or colleagues to so much as look at what I am doing. Not because I am doing poor work or because they might disapprove. Rather, the mere knowledge that my work is being consumed puts me in the mode of communicating rather than creating. I begin naturally thinking in terms of clarifying and explaining and consolidating, whereas when a work is mine alone, I can freely explore and leave a mess. The effect is disasterous for poorly-formed ideas. I absolutely must explore until I understand the natural form of what I am trying to create. If I think about accomodating the eyes of others too soon, I will be hampered in my explorations and may not do my best work.


I think it's a natural instinct even.


To protect against marauders ;)


Not necessarily. All it requires is that people simply don't like being startled, nothing more is required than that.


I think he was making a reference to a certain Big Bang Theory character..


Bazinga!


Yes and no.

No because you're clearly concerned about it so there is hope (Dick managers generally either don't care how they are or actively see it as a good thing), but yes because you seem not to trust them (you admit to wanting to know what they're doing).

The nature of trust is not trusting them to get on with their work eight hours a day to a format you think appropriate, it's trusting them to deliver what's been asked on time and to know how they want to work to achieve that.

You need to accept that there isn't a universal working pattern for programmers. Some are in at 8am, work diligently all day then head off. Others slope in late, are inefficient for large parts of the day but pull it out of the hat when it matters.

There is little point in asking programmer B why he can't work steadily like programmer A because quite simply he can't, that's not how his mind works. It may be that the inefficient time is how he mulls over the problem, it may be that he needs the rush of the approaching deadline, it maybe something else entirely, but these things are rarely as simple as Person X does this so it will work for Person Y.

Think of a programmer as a black box. You define inputs and outputs, they define what goes on inside the box. Your job is to give them the best inputs you can, monitor the outputs and generally leave the rest alone.

In terms of your current style a few questions you might want to ask yourself:

* What is it that means that you want to see what they're doing all the time?

* Why do they want to hide their monitors from you?

* What would you do if you saw them doing something completely non-work related?

* Have they done anything in the past which suggests that they're not committed to the project?

* How does your boss treat you and how do you feel about it?

I suspect the answers might help you identify any Dick traits you might have.

P.S. In terms of the guy craning - yes, you need to address that as you're likely liable for his working environment. But explain that to him and say he can have his cube how he likes so long as it's basically safe.


I think it bothers me because they're probably the two least productive employees we have. I want to address this issue - the first step to me seems to be "well, what do they do all day?"


A fair enough question but can I suggest that you're less passive about it and speak to them?

I've had incidents in my team where there are people I thought weren't productive who were genuinely engaged in a million minor support tasks I never knew about.

But in any case, talking to them like adults rather than spying on them is the way forward.


The issue isn't how they configure their workspace, it's their productivity. Assess their productivity from a black box perspective, don't even think about how their desks are arranged, that's not the issue, it's not even an issue.


How you deal with those two employees will impact the rest of your team.

Do you want the rest of your team to learn that it's important to be productive? Or would you rather teach them that it's most important to be seen to be working straight through for eight hours?


Again, we're okay with facebook/gchat/whatever. The rest of our employees are not engaged 100% of the time, and we're okay with that. This is not about spying on them, or making sure they have their nose to the grindstone for 8 straight hours. We have flexible hours, allow telecommuting, etc.

From my perspective, it's a cultural thing - we have tried to foster a two-way culture of openness and communication. We have 70 employees - 68 of which are okay with our environment of trust. What makes those two think they're special?


> What makes those two think they're special?

Are they ex-military and therefore trained to react violently when people sneak up behind them? ;)

EDIT: My ex-CEO tells a story of a former employee and Vietnam vet who warned him not to surprise him as his fighting reflexes might kick in, so it apparently can happen in real life.


It happens with victims of assault also. Some people really, really need their back to the wall and places that don't allow that affect their productivity / comfort level.


> "Am I a "Dick" manager for wanting to know what they're up to whenever I walk through the room?"

For wanting to know? Whenever you walk through the room? Yeah, you might be a Dick.

The only business reason to want to know "what they're up to" is if work isn't getting done. And if work isn't getting done, "what they're up to" is irrelevant.


>And if work isn't getting done, "what they're up to" is irrelevant.

wtf


In the past, I've been working with a manager who shared, more or less, your style. The work environment was less formal, with no cubicles but desks which appeared crammed, but were similarly placed to allow the manager to snoop around with zero effort. Comfortable, but privacy was a no-no.

I felt violated, for lack of a better word, in that environment. The reason was twofold. First, nobody can judge how productively I spend my time on my desk by what I was doing the moment they glanced at my screen. Making such claims is hypocritical, and taking work decisions about me on such claims is unfair. Secondly, not being allowed at least a little bit of privacy from any and all prying eyes communicates lack of trust from my manager's side.

I'm not sure whether I'd call it "bad management" because it might be working for you and your teammates, but it's not working for me.


I've noticed that the more a manager behaves like that, the less likely it is that their own space is set up to put their back to the door.


I don't think anybody with a desk places it with their back to the wall. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, professors, secretaries...but developers are more equal.


First of all, are you sure they did it so no one can see their screen? I've moved my desk around because, when I glance up, I like to see people rather than grey cubicle wall. Also, it seems more friendly and inviting to arrange my desk so that I'm facing people walking by, rather than showing them my back.

If it is mostly about the screen, it seems these employees don't trust you. Having them expose their screen to anyone walking by isn't going to increase trust.

Without knowing anything else about your situation, I'd suggest reading up about the "personal safety" parts of Crystal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_Clear_%28software_devel...

And Rands had a good post about 1 on 1s recently:

http://www.randsinrepose.com/archives/2010/09/22/the_update_...

Most people want to do a good job. You don't get very far programming if you don't like building things. If they aren't producing, this is a problem for you to debug. Are the unmotivated? Do they think the work is boring? Do they feel that they worked hard last quarter and weren't recognized for it? Do they think the project is likely to be canceled so what's the point of working on it? Have they been using Haskell at home and writing C++ seems like a make-work project for programmers?

Turning their screen away is a symptom. What's the underlying cause?


I really hate people walking behind me when I'm trying to work. The feeling that someone might be behind me prevents me from fully concentrating on what I'm working on.

A previous boss liked to stand behind me and watch (and occasionally make inane suggestions) when I was trying to fix a particularly high-profile issue. It negatively impacted both the speed and quality of my work.


I can understand why they did it. I've always been uncomfortable with other people (any people, even in a coffee shop) being able to see my monitor without me noticing and I can't really give a reason why. But, for example, I also hate sitting with my back to a door...

So, I don't think they've changed their setup only because they want to slack off or pull a fast one over you. It might just be a small neurotic habit on their side... As long as they do the work and are reliable, you shouldn't care about that...


As a manager, is your cubicle set so that your monitor is visible to everyone who walks by? Or is this simply policy for your subordinates?


no, everyone can see my monitor as they walk by. Pretty much everyone except for our CEO (confidential info, etc.) has their monitor visible as you walk by.


In my old company I said that people can use their computers for personal stuff too, as long as it was legal and wouldn't compromise the company in any way. I was fine with that. If people are spending 10-16 hours per day in the office, get your bills done, send email to your spouse, watch your nanny cam, look up what those little bumps might be caused by, or whatever. Just get your work done too.

I always made it a policy that whenever I stepped behind someones desk that I asked first. You'd be surprised how far respect goes amongst professionals.


It's actually really annoying when someone can just walk up behind you and see what you're doing and interrupt. It's probably MORE annoying when this happens when you are trying to do work, vs. farmville or whatever you suspect they are doing.

Most people given the choice do not want to look at a wall or the person across the pod from them. They either want to be able to look out a window, or into an open room.


Dick is insecure in his own abilities and has probably hit the wall per the Peter Principle. Good managers get out of the way of their developers; Dicks micromanage and hamper the creativity and growth of their developers because they fear that one day a developer may make them irrelevant. Nobody likes to work for a Dick.


Yes. A Dick has probably risen to his level of incompetence. Or, might just be incompetant, not knowing that the hell those developers are doing all the time.


From the comments:

"There is a third kind of manager, who is typically a ‘nice guy’ who doesn’t have a problem with chicken suits or a bit of browsing or working time as long as the job gets done but micro-manages the crap out you stopping by every 15 minutes to see ‘how you’re getting on’, just like Dick. Micro-management sucks ass"

I think the third kind of manager is almost worse than Dick. Micromanagement makes getting anything done near impossible. I've taken to wearing headphones at the office and generally ignoring my manager due to him falling into the third category. The phrase "How are you doing over there?" makes my eye twitch these days.

It would be easier to stand up against Dick, assuming you have nothing to lose by losing the job. Usually the third category is the type to have his/her feelings hurt and resort to personal attacks should you question their management style.

Just my personal experience, I realize that's probably a sweeping generalization.


Man up and talk to him about it if it's interrupting your productivity. I'm sure he cares about your productivity.


Well said.


Good post.

The manager doesn't always have to fit that description totally to be a bad manager. As the post suggests, if people are saying "You should check with ____ before doing that," that probably indicates some micromanagement tendencies, which are just as demoralizing and counterproductive, even if the manager is otherwise well-loved as a person by some/all members of the team.

Also, if a team member tells you: "If you want to make that change, just do it, because if you check with ____, it'll take a while or might never happen," that is a sign of an overly-political manager.

Finally, I'd like to add the "smiley"/"fake" manager attitude. It's one thing to have a fun manager, but at some point you expect that your manager is trying to get work done. If they seem always happy and poking fun at things, it can be really annoying and make you second guess why they are trying to make everything seem so fun (probably because it sucks).


Also beware the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" types who always view system design and framework suggestions as general programmer whining and thus not worth investing any time. A lot of times this is true but prolonged adherence to this will leave you with a fairly antiquated technology stack.


These tend to be the same folks who deny that it's broken, leading to piles and piles of steaming code that make adding new features and fixing problems exceedingly difficult. They routinely turn simple, six-week projects into six-month death march projects.


I'm not Dick. But I've occasionally had employees who would have done better if I were.

Anyone have any suggestions for how to manage a team where some employees need me to be Dick and some don't? The obvious solution is to replace the employees who need Dick's management, but that's not always feasible.


Seriously no-one needs Dick management.

Some may need more support, more monitoring and so on but no-one needs to be spied on.

Give them the freedom but have five minute chats with each one each morning so you can see if they're making progress. These aren't heavy things, they're quick informal updates, what are the problems, what's done that wasn't, can I see a quick demo and so on. Outside of that you leave them alone.

If you can't do this yourself because you don't have time then get each of your seniors to do a couple of the more junior guys.

If they're not making progress then they have a case to answer and ultimately moving towards a position where if they don't improve you are looking at getting rid of them (legally, even in the UK this is possible if you show they aren't performing given reasonable chances).

Monitoring progress is fine, that's management. Insisting on watching what someone is doing all the time is something else.


Thanks, that's helpful. I think I was a little vague/hand-wavy in my use of "Dick" - I agree that no one needs me peeking over his shoulder. I guess I just feel like I can either trust someone to be diligent and focused or I can't, and if I'm not trusting someone then I'm sort of being Dick. But I suppose there are open ways of monitoring people as well as sneaky ways, as you suggest.


* slightly harsher hat on *

The other advantage of it being open is if they are messing about it's a very honest warning shot across the bows if they are being supported but are not delivering.

The drive for trust should confuse the fact that people are there to deliver software.


Managing like Dick is a easy trap to fall into for middle managers. They are given responsibility for delivering something, yet have limited authority. For example they need higher level authorization for their budget.

Also, they are dependent of their workers to make them look good. Usually they rose to a manager by doing a good job as an individual contributor, where their work was completely under their control. As a manager they need their team to get the work done. They can't do it alone anymore. It is not a simple thing to learn to give up that control, and convince others to work as hard as you had. Someone who has poor leadership skills and abilities is likely to compensate by micromanaging.


I agree that micromanagement (especially of employees whose job is creating things) is a really bad idea. If it's necessary, then you made a bad hiring choice and need to start looking again.

However, if a developer came in "high and wearing a chicken suit" I wouldn't care how much he got done. The chicken suit might be passable if it were casual Friday, but high - not acceptable. There should still be an element of professionalism and respect when you're working with other people, getting paid well, and clients are depending on you.


"casual Friday" is the worst idea ever. Is working somehow less important on Friday? No? Then why not make every day casual Friday.

(I am personally not bitter about this. I wear whatever I want to work, and if someone has a problem, I'll just go work for the competition instead. Needless to say, nobody has a problem :)


I agree about a certain element of professionalism. My current boss has come in drunk on multiple occasions (all company meetings, candidate interviews, etc.). When I bring up the issue to his boss (the owner) the response is "He's putting it 60-80 hrs a week... he's super billable... he's a huge asset". Eventually, the "as long as you get the work done" attitude wore on me... I put in my two weeks last week.

I think there's certain freedoms employees should have (especially in the development world) including what you wear, hours you work, working from home, etc., but I don't think professionalism should be compromised.


Some personality types mesh perfectly well with Dick’s Machiavellian management style. Specifically, it seems to work on people who don’t feel very attached to their jobs. They have separate, thriving lives outside of work, and are fully able to leave all baggage at their desks before they go home.

- meshing with the Dick style of management

- being attached to your job

- having a thriving life outside of work

- being able to leave work baggage at work

I admit these aren't entirely unrelated. Being able to leave baggage at your desk mitigates the damage done by Dick. Having a thriving life outside of work helps you leave your baggage at work. If you don't have a thriving life outside work, you are more likely to be attached to your job.

However, in general these four things can vary independently. For example, I once had a Dick manager I hated, was apathetic about my job, was unable to leave work baggage at work, and had a personal life that varied from thriving to nonexistent during the time I worked for that manager.


Heh. This article reminds me of a book I read awhile back, called "The Management Secrets of T. John Dick":

http://www.amazon.com/Management-Secrets-T-John-Dick/dp/0970...

The book is fiction, and written from the point of view of the manager in question, but if you enjoy reading Dilbert, this book is a pretty good read.


Specifically, it seems to work on people who don’t feel very attached to their jobs. They have separate, thriving lives outside of work, and are fully able to leave all baggage at their desks before they go home.

Is this a bad thing somehow? Shouldn't we all strive to have separate thriving lives outside of work and to leave the company baggage behind when we go home?


It's poorly phrased, but I think he means to make a distinction between people who enjoy their work and get into it, and people who view work just as a way to pay the bills. The latter may need more direct and focused supervision than the former, who just needs guidance.


Exactly. I see it as the difference between "It's a job" and "It's my job".


If you're working on something complicated and interesting, you can't just turn off your interest when the clock strikes 5. It's always with you.

Some people, however, see work as a place where they go to keep the chairs nice and warm during the day, and have no problem "turning it off" at the end of the day.


I think that's why a lot of people here have gone on to do their own thing rather than working for another Dick. Although I have to say, being your own boss can sometimes be worse than working for a Dick.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apples_and_oranges

I think apples should lead apples and oranges should lead oranges.




Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: