I strongly disagree. And given that I'm working for a company who's entire purpose is to make money, I fail to see why I should not do the same. Nothing good comes from me forgoing making all that I can make.

Agree with you absolutely. Everyone here to make money. If they don't need you or they need you and you don't work, will they give you money ? If you are good at something, never do it for ...

You'll make a lot more money just starting your own business. Like, a ridiculous amount more. Then when you start hiring, you'll understand why attitudes like yours are toxic.

Again, I'm failing to see why you're advocating for a business to make all the money it can, but why you decry the same for employees. Double standard much?

You support one family. Companies support dozens to hundreds to thousands to tens of thousands.

And why should I not get as much as I can for my family?

Also, how do you reconcile your statement with the fact that companies will fire someone as soon as it makes sense for them?

You should try to get as much as you can for your family. But the best way to do this is to move up the value chain, not keep trying to squeeze blood out of a stone. You seem dead set on getting more compensation for bringing the exact same amount of value to the table.

My solution to your "fact" is to not work for a bunch of dicks. I've never gotten fired "as soon as it makes sense" once I transitioned into development. You seem to work for a lot of dicks. Stop doing that.

No, I work for business people. The very same type of people you tell me I should gift money by leaving it on the table.

This is going to be the last reply, but you've not made your case as to why I should gift my employer free money by leaving it on the table. There is exactly zero benefit to me for not getting everything I can, and quite a bit of upside. I have also found your double standard regarding the behavior of companies and the behavior of employees, and your handwaving away of that double standard, to be quite insane.

In short, you feel free to do whatever you want, and gift your employer free money. I, on the other hand, am going to take care of myself and my family by getting the maximum value I can out of the time I have to give my employer, and get paid as much as I can.

Have fun playing hardball over a few hundred bucks a month.

Do you think the nature of the employer-employee relationship is civil to begin with?

The original employer-employee relationship was between farmers and strongman warlords. If the strongmen didn't protect the farmers then they didn't get fed and if the farmers didn't produce as much as they could then they ran the risk of getting overrun by guys they didn't have an existing working relationship with.

So yeah, I think that was an inherently civil relationship. Agrarian empires were the original forms of civilization. Just because there's a hierarchy doesn't make it not civilized. Hierarchy is instead what makes it civilized. Hierarchy means that everyone can relax and focus on what's in their wheelhouse.