How often is camlp4/5 used among the typical OCaml programmer compared to how often macros are used among typical Lisp programmers?
How easy is camlp4/5 metaprogramming to read and write compared to Lisp macros?
This reminds me of Alan Perlis' admonition to "beware of the Turing tar-pit in which everything is possible but nothing of interest is easy."[1] and of a question John McCarthy asked Peter Norvig after the latter's talk about how Python was a Lisp:
"When he finished Peter took questions and to my surprise called first on the rumpled old guy who had wandered in just before the talk began and eased himself into a chair just across the aisle from me and a few rows up.
This guy had wild white hair and a scraggly white beard and looked hopelessly lost as if he had gotten separated from the tour group and wandered in mostly to rest his feet and just a little to see what we were all up to. My first thought was that he would be terribly disappointed by our bizarre topic and my second thought was that he would be about the right age, Stanford is just down the road, I think he is still at Stanford -- could it be?
"Yes, John?" Peter said.
I won't pretend to remember Lisp inventor John McCarthy's exact words which is odd because there were only about ten but he simply asked if
Python could gracefully manipulate Python code as data.
"No, John, it can't," said Peter and nothing more, graciously assenting to the professor's critique, and McCarthy said no more though Peter waited a moment to see if he would and in the silence a thousand words were said."[2]
> How easy is camlp4/5 metaprogramming to read and write compared to Lisp macros?
Having implemented a non-trivial 'macro' in camlp4 and likewise in Scheme, I can confidently say: It's about the same level of difficult/pain. Which is to say that it's much too painful/annoying.
Though, I should say that Racket by all accounts from the literature has improved things massively, even going to so far as to implement "macro-based" type systems (search for "turnstile racket").
EDIT: Just a side point, but:
A witty saying proves nothing
- Voltaire
(No idea if Voltaire ever said that, but that's kind of the point.)
How easy is camlp4/5 metaprogramming to read and write compared to Lisp macros?
This reminds me of Alan Perlis' admonition to "beware of the Turing tar-pit in which everything is possible but nothing of interest is easy."[1] and of a question John McCarthy asked Peter Norvig after the latter's talk about how Python was a Lisp:
"When he finished Peter took questions and to my surprise called first on the rumpled old guy who had wandered in just before the talk began and eased himself into a chair just across the aisle from me and a few rows up.
This guy had wild white hair and a scraggly white beard and looked hopelessly lost as if he had gotten separated from the tour group and wandered in mostly to rest his feet and just a little to see what we were all up to. My first thought was that he would be terribly disappointed by our bizarre topic and my second thought was that he would be about the right age, Stanford is just down the road, I think he is still at Stanford -- could it be?
"Yes, John?" Peter said.
I won't pretend to remember Lisp inventor John McCarthy's exact words which is odd because there were only about ten but he simply asked if Python could gracefully manipulate Python code as data.
"No, John, it can't," said Peter and nothing more, graciously assenting to the professor's critique, and McCarthy said no more though Peter waited a moment to see if he would and in the silence a thousand words were said."[2]
[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_tarpit
[2] - http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/2008/02/ooh-ooh-my-turn-wh...