creative work is a 24h job. you will get ideas even when you sleep. closing tickets and programming however is not and then such a contract would be outrageous. make sure you are paid for 24h and not 8h. or go home early every day stating that your contract say you can work from home on anything you want.
All authored work like programming gets covered as creative in some states, i.e. Italy.
It is rarely enforced but it's always there, looming.
Anyway, even before the consideration of intellectual properties, it stand to reason that a worker can produce only so much work per day before stressing out, and if an employee hired for 8h does 4h more on the side as contractor the employing company gets 'cheated out' of productive time and this is especially true in a job that require fairly constant concentration, even if being tired at the job is shitty all around universally.
> if an employee hired for 8h does 4h more on the side as contractor the employing company gets 'cheated out' of productive time
No, if I'm hired as an employee, it's either to perform specific duties during specific times (hourly pay), or it's to provide my expertise to accomplish tasks given me, with a possible expectation I be available or at a location during certain times (salaried pay). If I'm salary, and my employer expects it will take me 8 hours but it takes me 1, I can relax the rest of the time. Doing so may reflect poorly on me if I'm looking to advance, but that's why employment is a negotiation.
Nobody can provide 100% output 100% of the time they are working if they work 40 hours a week. People aren't built to be able to sustain that rate of work, they can try, but very quickly they are no longer putting out 100% output, even if they are there 100% of the time. So it's fairly obvious people do naturally limit the amount of effort they put into work based on the expected return, which is how it should be.
As an example, it's not unheard of for people to switch jobs for positions that pay less but also have far less responsibility. If you can work half as hard but get 75% the pay, some people will take that if that 75% is sufficient and they've determined that the prior amount of stress was too much.
That is true, and some companies (e.g. amazon) will not own any of your IP created outside of the office (they don't even mind if you use company equipment (e.g. work laptop)), but the contract states that you cannot be employed by anyone else while you are employed by them. This way they ensure that employees aren't tired from working a second job which as you pointed out is a problem.
Amazon isn't always thought of as the nicest of companies, but in terms of employees I.P. I'd say they are one of the fairest companies.
They are fine with an employee being tired during the day due to their own personal projects but are not fine with being tired due to a second employment? What difference does that make? That's just stupid.
They're not fine with an employee being tired due to their own side-projects, if you were underperforming you'd get told off by your manager, asked to improve e.t.c. all the way to getting fired.
You being able to own the IP to things you create outside of work does not mean that you suddenly don't have to work during your actual work times.
Also, if an employer gave that as a reason for them keeping my IP created outside of work hours I would very seriously reconsider accepting a job with them (other reasons such as those outlined in Joel's article make a lot of sense).
What you are saying is not within the context of what I was replying to. The comment specifically stated that they ensure you are not tired by not allowing you to be employed by a third-party, and yet personal projects are fine in that context.
Unless the comment I was responding to was worded badly, my statement is valid.
> if an employee hired for 8h does 4h more on the side as contractor the employing company gets 'cheated out' of productive time and this is especially true in a job that require fairly constant concentration
No. Just no. Side projects are another way to up your skills. In addition to side projects I've done for pay, I've done them for a charitable organization on a volunteer basis, fundamental science research group (small fee, practically volunteer work). Even if my day-job suffered temporarily, they've still benefited because each of these projects involved learning/practicing something new.
> a worker can produce only so much work per day before stressing out
So why are workers allowed to do their own laundry, cooking etc? If I do DIY on my house in my own time, does the company now own the increase in value of my house? That seems to be what you're arguing: that effort outside of the workplace directly zero-sum competes with effort in the workplace.
I mean, a really strict reading of the IP clauses would indicate that if I wrote a letter to my mother the IP would reside with the company.
>it stand to reason that a worker can produce only so much work per day before stressing out, and if an employee hired for 8h does 4h more on the side as contractor the employing company gets 'cheated out' of productive time and this is especially true in a job that require fairly constant concentration, even if being tired at the job is shitty all around universally.
Even if there is truth to what you said, employers already have enough power as it is. Why should we let them own a workers time even outside of the hours they are being compensated? They have no right to that. At the end of the day, if a worker is not productive enough the company can choose to fire them - thats about all the say a company should have over your life. If they want to OWN ALL your productive output, it stands to reason they should pay much more than the 8 hours your salary covers.
> Why should we let them own a workers time even outside of the hours they are being compensated?
I think it's more "let them have the power to fire a worker that comes on the job tired, warms the seat while recovers for the night shift and leaves the office without producing the value he is paid for."
more to the point: there's already a contract form that empowers the worker to work goals instead of hours, allowing employers that so desire to manage their time, so there's that as well. if one chooses the salaryman life, he get pros and cons.
I get that and at my company, we restrict IP to the realm of our product line, and products developed using our resources. If our business sold sewing machines, I wouldn't expect the guy to hand over his encryption algorithm if he built it at home using his personal laptop.
