I would shocked if meditation could cause a physical emergency. In all my readings and studies of meditation, this is the first I've ever heard of such a situation. Most likely, there was some other reason she had a medical emergency. I'd be curious what else they were doing at the retreat besides basic meditation.
It is quite plausible. Meditation can trigger a psychosis (or delirium). For most people, not likely (the likeliness is not akin to LSD which besides that a trip on LSD is akin to a [positive] psychosis), but it is possible and you hearing about it for the first time is not a valid way of assessing this likelihood. The likeliness is increased if the user is addicted to certain drugs, and quit cold turkey, without decreasing the dosage. This can for example happen with alcohol.
If it really was "plausible" you'd expect professionals in the field to alert about this. I've heard nothing but positive encouragement from many healthcare providers about the benefits of meditation and not a one of them discussed the possibility of psychosis or delirium.
Honestly, I just don't buy that it's a real problem or that meditation alone would cause serious issues. But I do know that many who do meditation often do other things as well, and those other things are typically much more of a concern.
Listen, it is not occurring a lot (not as much as bad trips on LSD or mushrooms), but it _is_ possible. Don't forget some people have real mental (and heck, physical) disabilities which are affected by drugs as well as medication as well as meditation. Meditation is that powerful. As is (long term) dancing, for that matter.
Also, this wasn't about ordinary meditation. This was about long term meditation. Quoting:
> "[...] during a mindfulness meditation retreat last weekend [...]"
Retreat is the keyword. This person was meditating full stop, like going on Vipassana course. That is not the same as someone doing mindfulness for 30 minutes at home and feeling at risk a psychosis occurs.
The example I gave you about withdrawal symptoms occurring during a retreat are also plausible. You have to stay sober in such a retreat. Coffee? Alcohol? Marihuana? LSD? Cocaine? Heroin? Forget about all that. If you sign up for Vipassana, you need to specify what kind of drugs you have used, what kind of medication you have used, and your mental/physical disabilities. Some people however decide to lie about that. Bad idea...
I'm unable to find any academic or journal or industry research papers about these supposed dangers of meditation. I'd like to read them if they are out there.
I have found some blogs on the subject and a couple vague articles on news websites, but that doesn't really mean anything if I can't see real studies on it.
I gave you on two accounts withdrawal symptoms from drugs as example. Surely, you can find scientific information on that. You'd be right that is not the direct result of mindfulness or meditation, but it is indirect result, and since e.g. Vipassana retreat enforces a no drugs an no medication policy it can occur (exceptions can be discussed beforehand though).
We also know that there are people with mental disabilities who are being untreated. Some of those people are sensitive to psychosis, and are at risk f.e. when induced by stress. I myself had a psychosis due to stress (not drugs, not meditation, not medication; I wish it was any of that, but it wasn't; it was stress).
Also, I'm not really sure if such would be reported. Not every psychosis gets documented by doctors. Mine wasn't, because I did not even dare to go outside (light hurted me, severely). I could barely speak. I only drank water for weeks. Barely ate. Bills were piling up. You get the idea.
FWIW, I found this after 3 minutes of searching with DDG:
"In 1994, the “Glossary of Culture-Bound Syndromes” of the diagnostic manual of the American Psychiatric Association states:
Qigong psychotic reaction: A term describing an acute, time-limited episode characterized by dissociative, paranoid, or other psychotic or non-psychotic symptoms that may occur after participation in the Chinese folk health-enhancing practice of qigong. Especially vulnerable are individuals who become overly involved in the practice."
"A scarce literature exists on meditation
and psychosis, and it contains cautions against teaching meditation to people vulnerable to (Yorston, 2001) or currently experiencing active symptoms of psychosis (Deatherage and Lethbridge, 1975)."
Can't say I put a lot of effort in this. Yet I found this rather easily.
TBH, I don't think you are trying hard enough. To me it appears it is not fitting your viewpoint so you just gave up quickly. You also ignore the points I made (see top of my post).
> This is exactly the point I've been making, that the meditation itself is not to blame for these issues.
Well, if the subject lied about their medical conditions, then the retreat has written proof of that. That's why you gotta fill it in (its also why visa waiver asks seemingly ridiculous questions). Its CYA; in this case so it is more difficult to sue them successfully afterwards. That also underlines there is a responsibility for the retreat provider(s). You cannot completely deny responsibility. The relationship between client (customer) and server (provider) is not equal here. The provider is the specialist; the client is not.
> Thanks for the other links, I shall read them.
Great. Be aware I spend 2 + 2 + 3 minutes on it just to prove there is research on this available. I didn't do an exhaustive search so I suggest you push the limit further in that regard.
I find it furthermore ironic you link to that subpart of the Wikipedia page and my browser shows in such a way in the middle of my screen the "Overview of clinical research" (which I read first) where it is written: "Although clinical research examining health effects of qigong is increasing, there is little financial or medical incentive to support research, and still only a limited number of studies meet accepted medical and scientific standards of randomized controlled trials (RCTs).[75]" and "A 2011 overview of systematic reviews of clinical trials concluded that "the effectiveness of qigong is based mostly on poor quality research" and "therefore, it would be unwise to draw firm conclusions at this stage".[3]" yet at the part you link to (which I was searching for in middle of my screen) it says "Qigong is generally viewed as safe.[74]" and "Although a 2010 comprehensive literature review found 77 peer-reviewed RCTs;[75] systematic reviews for particular health conditions show that most clinical research is of poor quality, typically because of small sample size and lack of proper control groups, with lack of blinding associated with high risk of bias.[3]" (Apart from the irony of my experience) this is clearly in contradiction with each other within the same article.
I get bad reactions from mindfulness meditation. I am not the only one: Do a quick google search about it. Yes, it is uncommon comparatively, but this doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I'm not sure why this is surprising to you: After all, people often use meditation for spiritual experiences, to go into altered states of conciousness, and other such things (much like psychedelics). And if they can help anxiety or depression - much like medications can - they can certainly harm things as well.
Medical professionals probably do say good things about it. But lets look at this closer: They probably say good things about medications too - because most people react well to it. This doesn't mean that it doesn't cause problems in a few people, nor that you will hear about it.
For me, it makes it so I'm angry. I'm unhappy with everyday life. I'm frustrated all the time and I dread the sessions. I've found some meditation styles that don't pick up the mindfulness and kept them up for a few months: but basically, I was sitting there being bored once a day and didn't have anything to show at the end for the work I had done. So I quit. I would certainly never do a retreat because I think I could be that person.
LSD (when I was younger) and other hallucinogens (now that I can vacation in Amsterdam) have, however, helped a great deal. More than meditation. You see, it seems to me that for meditation to work, you have to know how to produce some of these feelings - or at least recognize them in real time. You have to understand how to do what the stuff says. You have to be able to not beat yourself up for failing (which is difficult if you have perfectionist tendencies or some fear of failure). The other is more ... forced positive feelings, plus some altered thinking. Suddenly I remember what this is all like, and can take it to my daily life.
Are you trying those "magic truffles" in Amsterdam? I worry about such things in the commercial space as possibly being laced with other things, since they aren't really regulated. You found them helpful?
That's the problem with the quasi-legal stuff in Amsterdam. Weird place in regulation, where only part of the process has much of anything. Really it is the similar with weed and hash, and somewhat similar to the regular illegal drug market - with the exception of selling this stuff to residents and tourists in a completely legal manner. It seems the pushback for lacing such things would be pretty severe in this case. The unfortunate reality of this stuff is that unless we have some of that regulation and legality in place, this particular risk will be there.
Helpful, yes. Preferred? No - LSD and little forest mushrooms are my preference. But most folks have to contend with legality of things, including myself, and these are a legal option.
Being pretty introspective on them, I giggled at myself and found myself quite clever. I remembered what it was like to be happy with myself and my thoughts. The downside - with the truffles anyway - was that while sobering up, I could feel the everyday worries and anxieties coming back. They were gone for a bit, and I hadn't even noticed. It sucked the first time, but the combination of it all was such that I could start making changes in things the very next day - partially because I remembered.
