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This is emblematic of what's wrong with so many subreddits and so much of the social web that comes in the form of "forums" -- it seems like we have entire generations of users who have associated the totalitarian nature of forums with things being "advanced" on the internet.

Social media isn't mostly about free thought, free speech, and free inquiry anymore. Nowadays, it's mostly about the rapid dissemination of conformity. Woe betide you if you actually have a nuanced opinion that doesn't fit neatly with either side of an issue. Your fellow posters/commenters will reject their pattern-match and call you a liar and 5th columnist for the other side.

Technology came and killed the impulse towards freedom. It taught people through repeated iteration that conformity to the mob was the highest good. It taught smart people that wrangling their way into positions of centralized power to exercise authoritarian rule was the insider move. It taught everyone that suppression of anything that you didn't like was the winning move. It was called the internet.




Thanks for this, I have noticed that in the online communities where I hang out, it is nice to have the words of what has been annoying me. Thanks so much.


Well, now that we've identified the problem, what can we do about it? Right now, large swathes of the internet are ruled by bullying stupids. What's more, that old saw about how you shouldn't argue with an idiot, because passerby just see two idiots? -- that's definitely in operation as well.


The one thing that I have done is criticize in a way that makes the person look terrible if they ban you for it. I don't know how well this does for the bigger picture. Sometimes it is quite scary doing this though. My apologies for not replying earlier. I think spreading awareness like you were in your comment is also great, at least for people who have experienced this before, because they say 'oh yeah, that's true'.


This is self righteous, moralising nonsense. You are free to say whatever you want on the internet. Set up a blog or website and go nuts.

You aren't free to dictate the behaviour of companies who don't want content on their site that is objectionable or factually baseless.

Likewise it is just hypocritical and hilarious to complain about conformity just because your opinions don't correspond with theirs. Those people have the right to say and think what they want just like you do.


This is self righteous, moralising nonsense. You are free to say whatever you want on the internet. Set up a blog or website and go nuts.

I'm not so sure you're understanding where I'm coming from. I used to find online a place where I could freely express an opinion without fear of onerous consequences. Back in the old USENET days, there were trolls and heavy-handed moderation and all manner of unpleasantness, but there was also a widespread cultural respect for free speech.

Would you say that undoing net neutrality, then Comcast dropping all packets associated with anything expressing an anti-Comcast opinion is good and savory behavior? Would complaining about that be self righteous, moralizing nonsense?

The idea that people shouldn't engage in physical violence and intimidation could by the same logic be called self righteous, moralizing nonsense. ("FFS, just go and work out, take karate, or buy a gun or something!") Well, of course not. There is tremendous value in an open society where people can depend on the rule of law, driveable roads, electricity, plumbing, etc... Being civilized is literally valued at trillions of dollars in productivity. Likewise, there was tremendous value in open forums where people were free to express themselves and generally agreed to disagree. That's not what we have today. Basically, people bully other people by numbers and social pressure, or through moderation mechanisms. Your idea of "freedom" seems to be like a medieval form of "freedom" where any robber baron can set up a castle and start issuing his own laws and coinage. A truly open society is open globally, and people are free to roam and transact in a relatively relaxed fashion. Now, the morality of today's online world seems to be leaking into the real world, with that kind of deleting "moderation" applied to people's membership in civic organizations. Sorry, but that's petty and non-enlightened. It's like you don't believe the truth will set you free, and it's only pressure, numbers, and mechanisms that will win the day.


"Would you say that undoing net neutrality, then Comcast dropping all packets associated with anything expressing an anti-Comcast opinion is good and savory behavior? Would complaining about that be self righteous, moralizing nonsense?"

That is the perfect analogy for this situation.

Furthermore, I'd say a group of moderators who resort to discussing the future of their subreddit in a democratic and mature fashion; ensuring the integrity of their future, is far from comparable to what the CEO of Reddit has done.


Unfortunately, your verbosity and rhetorics don't make up for "the truth", "civilization", "anti-corporate revolt" or any other intellectual and ethical monopoly you claim to hold on reality. You automatically assume that your correspondents are fools and boiling frogs. If people have left your lengthy claims of net neutrality being broken by the shutdown of a subreddit with individuals who are accused of doxxing alone, that is because they would rather play tetris than tap hundreds of times on their little devices in order to show your opinions the proverbial door on the subject of this matter. And that is, unfortunately for you, the core value of free speech.


"Woe betide you if you actually have a nuanced opinion that doesn't fit neatly with either side of an issue. Your fellow posters/commenters will reject their pattern-match and call you a liar and 5th columnist for the other side"

lol, his comment fits this perfectly.




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