Probably not senile, but certainly a mental breakdown. Which makes 'seeing a doctor' easier said than done. She's not a gentle lady being tricked out of her cash, she's tenaciously ejecting her money to a dude she thinks she's going to marry, while everyone around her is making her miserable.
I've become acquainted with a few 419ers (Nigerian) during trips to Ghana (not the big boys, who are without fail sleaze bags, but the grunts, some of whom are very nice in person) and have done quite some research on how they and the scams work. When it comes to 419ers, they have a wide network across the world. They can get a guy to pick up cash or meet someone, today if need be. It might not even be a Nigerian, they work with other people as well.
Last time I was there, a couple of guys tried to entice me into joining them. Said I would be very successful, I could act as a UN attaché or whatever. Then they told me about a guy from somewhere in SE Asia, don't remember which country but I guess they have debtor's jail, because he had indebted himself and risked prison. He managed to get out and went to Ghana to try and get his money back. He turned out to start working with them instead, a couple of months later he had a mansion and three luxury cars. There are all kinds of crazy stories.
The thing is, most of the scammers and the victims are similar (not the romance scam but the Nigerian letters). They are after a quick buck and don't care much for morals (that's why the money is always someone else's, since by accepting you are entering a conspiracy with the scammer, and you are hesitant to tell someone about it). They live large and spend a lot of money, mostly on worthless consumer stuff like expensive liquor, cars, watches and so on. So the money goes back to the West (North, really) again.
I tried to convince a guy I have come to know a little to invest instead, to build something in his community. He told me about a scammer meeting his client (that's what they call the victims) in Hamburg. He picked up half a million Euro in cash. Took it to buy trucks and other machinery and sent it to Ghana and set up a profitable leasing service in Tema, the main harbour. Another guy built a small but popular mall.
I doubt most of the con artists have a good idea of what happens to their clients though, or that they think about it much. The workers are young and enthusiastic, and the big boys don't give a damn. Many victims turn mad, happened to a friend's uncle who got hooked way back when they sent faxes.
The trick is simple yet powerful - obviously the letters are made to funnel gullible people, but also greedy people with low morals. This would help the scammer justify it to himself. Another justification is that their countries have already been robbed for centuries. By entering a conspiracy, the client will be hesitant to tell anyone about it. After that, it's just the sunk costs fallacy, or "sending good money after bad". Every time the stakes are higher, but the choice is to keep believing you will get paid or say bye bye to even more money than you're sending, and accept the truth. It might also partly be an exploit of the looser bonds between people, where many of us have individual economy and are reticent to share our financials/earning/spending with others, even close friends and family, and especially if we suspect they might disagree.
Scammers are also quick to exploit current events. Last time I went to visit, one guy showed me a con he was working on which was a romance con. He acted as a British officer stationed in Iraq, who had come across some of all of the lost billions of dollars the US brought there in cash.
There are a lot of 419ers in Ghana, disliked by many but they spend in bars and hotels. They tend to live on credit though (the workers), only (hopefully) paying their bills after a payout. I'm not sure about the central police department, but the local police are definitely bought off. I know them via the innkeeper, a Ghanaian who don't like them much but they give him business. It's a crazy world.
Dude, you have GOT to write this up in muuuuuhuch more detail. This is fascinating!! You're a good writer but obviously these few paragraphs are off-the-cuff. Couldn't you make a longer version? I would be careful about your personal association (I mean can you write in a way that isn't linked to you), I hope you can do so anonymously. Very interesting reading! Thanks. Here's a vote for writing more!
Hey, thanks. Perhaps I might, not right now though. I'm not very worried about the association, these things aren't that secret.
I can tell you though that there is some more disturbing things going on in Ghana, with what they call Sakawa Boys. Sakawa is the name for online scams. Sakawa Boys are more into carding/skimming, but there is a way darker side to Sakawa which I don't think is happening with the 419ers. They are also much less approachable, at least to me, Nigerians (at least in Ghana) tend to be very easy going and open.
The thing with Sakawa is that it is tied up with juju/voodoo and dark magic. They will perform various rituals to earn magic, money attracting powers. I'm interested in magic myself but stay the hell away from this. It's hard to know what's real and how the whole thing works, but young men (around 20) often unemployed, poor and lusting for a western lifestyle, status and respect will go to a witch doctor to get magical powers.
The witch doctor will tell them to perform a ritual. It may involve snakes or other animals, but sometimes they will be told to kill a person and bring, well, body parts. After that they will get magic money earning powers. It's shrouded in secrecy and nobody likes to talk about this but I think it's similar to entering a gang, you need to prove yourself. Same thing which also happens in secret societies. It's a way of building unbreakable loyalty because you have done something unthinkable together. The difference with criminal gangs in the west is the whole dark magic thing. Really, it's just about power, bonds and hierarchy.
The thing is, you will see young men (the big boys, usually, around 30 perhaps) with extremely luxurious cars. In an area with people living in shacks you will see someone roll up in a Bentley, even. I don't quite understand how they make all that money. Even young men will have bags of cash. There are Sakawa girls too, who will romance you and steal your card.
This is much harder to know about because nobody will talk about it. I suspect it also involves the drug trade, since West Africa has become a port for cocaine from South America. Sometimes a boat will come ashore with mountains of coke.
There is a guy in the area where I use to visit who always walks around completely naked, in a zombie like state. He could have been 17 last time I was there almost three years ago. I was told someone had performed voodoo on him and he was unable to wear clothes. I'm pretty sure he has been given datura, which may well be the worst drug known to man (apparently, the British soldiers who fought down Bacon's Rebellion took it).
These witch doctors wield considerable power and are a huge problem in parts of West Africa.
Thanks again, I'll write something up when I get some inspiration and peace and quiet.
read this. also fascinating. yes, write it up if you find a good medium (hint hint) to publish it on.
question: you write in one point here "I'm interested in magic myself." You can't say that to this crowd if you said it I would stop reading your article for credibility reasons. So if you believe that any kind of magic or spells exist (that aren't tricks), then you should separate out this belief from your report, because (just telling you honestly) it makes you lose any credibility. if by 'interested in magic' you meant like tricks/illusion (rather than actual magic, which most people here would say doesn't exist) then you should be more explicit.
you've written a lot more interesting things here than even in your original reply. I am fascinated and hope you will find the time to write it up. if you submit it to HN you can refer to this thread where I asked you to :) very very interesting.
I get what you mean, I've been frequenting HN for years so I know the crowd. Regarding magic, to me it's not so much about whether magic exists but what it is. Sure, it's trickery, originally I guess it is what we would call technology, only wider, technology and psychology perhaps. It's about making things come to happen.
I guess I could put it this way, Clarke's quote ("Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic") is mistaken, any sufficiently advanced technology is magic, it's just that we are disillusioned.
I agree that it's more honest to be an illusionist than a witch doctor, but there are powerful magicians out there today, take Trump for instance, he's got the whole world enthralled.
I have just summoned tens of points to my karma account using nothing but my words, and I'm sure there are more to come.
It's not a big deal. Thanks for the advice though. ;)
from what you've just stated it's fine. What I meant is that there are people who believe you could levitate objects with your mind (like in the xmen comic books) and since you're writing about things that are already really, really outlandish it's SUPER-important not to fall into a comic-book style of narration!! :) If you thought you (or anyone) could actually levitate objects with your mind (and no technology) then it would make everything that you wrote about what you've just shared with us really suspect.
if you write it the way you've just written it, that won't be an issue. Just be clear that what you've shared with us just now already sounds like a comic book!! :) I mean, you've literally written that there are people who ask people to kill someone and get body parts, as part of voodoo. There are people walking around naked after being given drugs. The last thing that is needed is for the narrator to themselves also be suspect, for example by reporting that someone shows him how to levitate objects with his mind (no tricks and technology), and that it works.
So I really look forward to reading more whenever you write it up. What you've written so far is already comic-book style! But I hope you won't embellish and will stick to the facts. :)
I just want to remind you that it is you who are worried about my credibility, not me. So thank you for the advice, but I decline. It is also you who seem preoccupied with levitation.
Regarding the events, it's not comics. It's happening, and it's gotten worse the last 10 years. Voodoo comes from the deltas stretching from eastern Ghana over Togo and Benin to western Nigeria. Whatever it is they do they wield considerable control over people, to the point where big investments are dropped, houses never finished, parents leaving babies to fend for themselves.
But it's like @qb45 says, just google it. I want to advise though that there are many rumours as well, not the least because witch doctors have an interest in building the fear and the criminals want to instil respect and keep away nosy people.
Lastly, you come across as pretty rude to me. Just want to remind you that their is another person writing this, and I don't particularly like being talked about in third person and discredited for sharing an experience. So a piece of advice in return, think for a moment about they way you write about my writing having "issues" or what is or is not "needed", and it'll be fine.
> Just be clear that what you've shared with us just now already sounds like a comic book!! :) I mean, you've literally written that there are people who ask people to kill someone and get body parts, as part of voodoo. There are people walking around naked after being given drugs.
Uh, remind me not to come over for dinner. Seriously if you think OP's account is, business as usual, well - you and I live in different worlds, or you've seen a lot more of the seedy underbelly of criminal organizations than I have! Which is what makes OP's write-up interesting.
It's interesting because it's first-person. The list you've given is interesting too but all over the map - OP can report as a direct source, in the first person, not curate information from elsewhere. (Which is why I think it's important for him to not to accidentally sound like he's saying he's able to levitate things with his mind or anything like that. his followup makes this clear.)
if he does write something, you don't have to read it - but I certainly will!
No, I have no direct experience with that extreme stuff, but I grew up in somewhat violent neighborhood. And to this day I have a mild fascination with all things NSFL ;)
Magic is real. Look anywhere in the world outside of modern urban areas and you will find people who have experienced it first hand. It is true that every culture in the world has different gods and spirits, but they all have some conceptions of magic and a spirit realm. The existence and character of this phenomenon has been discovered and independently rediscovered many times throughout and preceding recorded history, but because of the conditions of their environment and because of their philosophical preconceptions western technocrats deny it. Magic is an antifragile phenomenon; it lives in and feeds upon chaos. It can't be tested in a controlled environment anymore than you can study primate mating habits in an environment devoid of oxygen. But in real life it works, and the only truly empirical thing to do is to try it for yourself, in the context of your own life, and see how real it can be.
> The trick is simple yet powerful - obviously the letters are made to funnel gullible people, but also greedy people with low morals. This would help the scammer justify it to himself.
I guess it also helps the client justify things to himself. There is money in people who feel guilty.
It's difficult. obviously if you were to intervene (for example by pretending to take an interest) to help, the scammer would realize what you are doing.
you are saying that your mother is not senile, and is just (acting) 'stupid'. But if this is the case, why don't you ask her about the details (excuses and so forth)?
Has she told you things like, "Yes, I realize that there are scams, but this is not one of them."
Is she otherwise intelligent? If she is intelligent and you got as far as her saying, "Yes, I realize there are scams, but this is not oen of them" then you could discuss rationally how you know...
the scammer could also kind of believe it from their end.
I don't know what are "those" scams but many scammers go very far, as far as giving you their cellphone number that works and they pick up, and even meet you in person. There are youtube videos of scammers meeting people and then called out on lie they just leave. I would assume if she paid so much and still have money, she is priobably on scammers vip list so I wouldn't be suprised if multiple "lawyers" and other scums meet her and show her papers that all is good in regarding to her $3.5 MM, it just needs more time.
Oh wow. Most of the types of romance scams I've read about involve the scammers pretending to be people in other countries, inventing dilemmas that require money while romancing the victim. I assumed this to be the case, but it apparently is not. That is scarier.
No you are correct, but those usually end up when someone pays few hundred bucks. I assume getting $200,000 out of your victim puts him/her in a special category.
There is proof to the contrary that "startups work" and that working for equity is a good use of someone's time. I still believe it. It's kind of irrational and outlandish.
When I work on startups with others, this isn't a scam.
So your terms "irrational", "outlandish", "without a shred of proof" or with "proof to the contrary" is insufficient. You need to come up with a more polarizing differential that can differentiate between a dyed-in-the-wool scam and love amidst sketchy-ass finances.
There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud.
In one case, there are just big risks that on average won't work out. In the other, there is no possibility for success because one party has no intention of following through on their promises.
If the scammer were actually in love, and just taking the money with the intention of investing it, but consistently blowing it in Vegas due to a gambling addiction, that wouldn't be fraud because he's still being honest.
It's the lying at issue, not the soundness of the investment.
And frankly I don't see many people saying "take options at a random startup to get rich, that's a good financial investment". Have you?
>There's a difference between a low probability of success that has a net negative financial value (startups, lotteries, America's Cup bids) and fraud.
That's not my point. if there's even a SINGLE person who is checking off all of the fraud checkmarks but is genuine, then it's more like a lottery.
For example, the famous Fedex story (you can google) where Fedex didn't have just a few more weeks of cash runway and would have had to shutter as it tried to raise it's investment round, and the founder gambled in Vegas to make their fuel run. Google that story.
100% scammer red flags - except it's real.
So, we have to differentiate. The mother in this equation is playing a lottery ticket that this particular person isn't a scammer. If there's even a single genuine story like that, anywhere, then that means it's a lottery ticket.
So it's not as simple as you say. For your question at the end, yes, I have seen that. :)
that's not a good differentiator because by the definition you have just given, any fraudster who themselves convinces themselves to believe their scam is no longer committing a scam. I reject that suggestion.
from the startup world, uBeam is a fraud, it's a scam: but it doesn't matter if their intent is valid or if they have convinced themselves to believe it. (I mention this as it's one of the only examples from the startup world.)
the legal situation may be different, but as a practical matter I don't think what you're saying is enough.
> how do you believe someone loves you and is going to marry you without seeing them?
How does one believe that? Well, they choose to. It might very well be irrational, it might be outlandish, yet they still choose to believe it.
People choose to believe all sorts of outlandish things all the time. Sometimes they were right after all, sometimes not. Given that this instance perfectly fits established patterns of scams I think it's a perfectly fair assumption that this is a scam until proven otherwise.
The whole situation is beyond surreal.