Labels are dangerous, and labelling yourself as a procrastinator will just make you even less likely to do the work you need to do. I think I get a lot of work done (solo game dev on my own), but I also re-organise my task list about every week too, does that make me a procrastinator? If I get stuck on a hard problem, I'll often browse the internet mindlessly, then come back and solve it. Does that make me a procrastinator? If I take a week off, am I a procrastinator!?
Just because we made up a word for 'not doing work' doesn't make it real, or a problem. 'chronic procrastination'? Give me a break.
I think the real problem is people don't like doing things that are hard, which work generally is (nothing worth doing is easy after all!), and it's easy to just not do something and not have to suffer through the stress of it, anxiety of it and so on.
If you're still reading, my solution for all this is exercise, specifically Yoga. I have a mat laid out in my house, and when I'm stressed I just do poses, stretching and breathing, and all the 'bad feelings' go away. then I can work in a relaxed state and end up being very productive. A biologist would probably tell you that you release chemicals that combat the stress chemicals and so on, but I just know it works.
> I think I get a lot of work done (solo game dev on my own), but I also re-organise my task list about every week too, does that make me a procrastinator? If I get stuck on a hard problem, I'll often browse the internet mindlessly, then come back and solve it. Does that make me a procrastinator? If I take a week off, am I a procrastinator!?
No, that behavior seems pretty rational, not like what is described in the article. You're not consistently putting off a painful task, you're taking breaks.
> Just because we made up a word for 'not doing work' doesn't make it real, or a problem.
Call it what you will, but procrastination has been a serious problem for me. The negative effects on my life are far too plentiful to mention, but an easy example is that I dropped out of college because I didn't want to write a paper. I tried to write it, couldn't make progress, stopped going to the class, and then didn't sign up for any more classes. There are just some tasks that are very stressful to think about, and for better or worse, my instinctual response is to simply not think about them at all. Unless you've experienced this, and seen relationships, jobs, personal projects, etc fall apart right in front of you, over and over again, I don't think you can say procrastination is not a problem.
I do a fair amount of Yoga, and indeed it helps with relaxation, but that's rather beside the point: it's quite susceptible to the same mental flinch as any other task. If I'm procrastinating on something, it's not any easier to decide to do Yoga to help make progress on it, than it is to just not procrastinate in the first place.
Labeling or not, calling it a problem or not, I don't get your point. Are you saying that you cannot control yourself and it's not your fault that you didn't do all that work?
At the end of the day it seems a personal choice to me. Similar to people with drug problems, it might be harder or easier for certain people to get the willpower to do (or not do) certain things, but it's still under your control and up to you.
I don't see the point in arguing over what to call it and whether it's a problem. Either you do the work or you don't. Just do your work if you want the results.
Quote from the article: "As I tell people, to tell the chronic procrastinator to just do it would be like saying to a clinically depressed person, cheer up."
That's a frustrating parallel you draw. I wouldn't tell a depressed person to cheer up. I've been depressed.
And I wouldn't tell an addict to just stop. I have friends who are addicts.
But I know that at the end of the day, if you want to fix either of these issues, you are the only person who can do something about it. It's difficult, but possible. Nobody else can stop drinking for you, or fix your depression for you. Sure you can try rehab and antidepressants, but at the end of the day you have to do it.
Same with procrastination. Except there's no pill for it, you just have to do it. I wouldn't say it in such a crude way to a friend, but the fact is, the friend is the only one who can fix his problem.
You could also tell someone to just run a marathon, I mean it's easy: just move your left feet and then the right, and repeat that for next 26 miles. Where's the problem? Problem, of course, is that most of us lack the physical stamina to run a marathon. Likewise many people lack mental stamina/strength to "just do the work", or "just eat less", or "just quit smoking/drinking/doing drugs"... why is that such a hard concept to grasp?
But they don't lack the stamina/strength. It's just more difficult for them. The possibility is still there.
Same with addicts. I know a handful. Yes, it's tremendously difficult for them to quit with the drugs, but it's still possible. It's their decision to make. Any doctor or person at a rehab facility will tell you, they have the ability to do it but it's just more difficult for them than for me.
So comparing it to completely not having the ability to do it is a defeatist attitude. The ability is there.
well, you probably could also walk those 26 miles if you can't run the marathon... but unless you're Joe Strummer you probably wouldn't even consider doing it
You are clearly not a procrastinator, and chronic procrastination seems so far away from your own mental state and experiences that you might not relate and emphasize even remotely with it. I don't mean that in a bad way, it is likely just not been part of your reality which makes it very very hard to understand what affected people feel like and what their reasons could be.
(Please excuse me if I'm putting words in your mouth here. It's an interpretation on my behalf, and I'm just as likely to also completely fail to understand how you feel like and what your reasons are.)
"Procrastination" is a simple word to describe a complex and large range of behaviors. Each behavior on it's own might be something very normal that everybody does once in a while, but that is just one end of the spectrum. On the other end of the spectrum it is a massive problem, controlling every part of the affected persons life and likely mixed with other mental and emotional problems as a result of it. Of course the number of people on that extreme end are rare, it's somewhere in between for most.
But I would say that by definition people that identify with that "label" recognize how it is (has been) hurting them again and again, and how hard it is to control those behaviors.
It is a very important first step to admit to yourself that you have a problem, and to learn about your "condition" so you can understand what is actually happening. There are many strategies that helped many people, most base on first recognizing and understanding your own (harmful) patterns and their deeper roots, in order to change them.
Dismissing that this is actually a real problem and that people should just snap out of it is surely not helping affected people.
Just like with many other disorders, as long as it's a mild problem you can use a number of ad hoc remedies, but it just won't work for people with real issues. Telling a junky to just do yoga and stay away from drugs is a valid suggestion, but in real-life it's just not enough. Real procrastinator will not do yoga when procrastinating, simply because most of the time you are not even aware that you're procrastinating at the moment. Or if you are you don't have a mental strength to fight the urge to do it. I know this is very hard to grasp for someone who have never experienced it, but the act of procrastination is actually a kind of reality distortion where your own brain tricks you into not really noticing what you are doing. It's a bit like when magician diverts your attention so that you don't notice when he hides the card in a sleeve. You know it will happen, but you aren't aware of it in the moment it happens and you just can't stop him from shifting your focus away from cards. That is, at least, my impression how it happens to me when procrastinating, simply at some point my subconscious gets bored and jumps to another track without consulting the rationale me about it. Half an hour later you realise you've been reading an article about skeletons of giant sloths found in China instead of working or whatever you've planned to do.
So what's your solution then? What if I agree with you and say: fine, it's impossible for procrastinators to do their work. Is this the end? Do we all just agree that procrastinators can't do their work and sit around not doing work?
What's the solution, if not somehow, some way, gathering the willpower and forcing yourself to do the work? Is there another way around it?
Nothing is impossible, but if it's very hard most of people will not manage to do it on their own, it's just a simple fact of life. Push them harder and just more of them will fail. If you throw a 100 non-swimmers in a pool, probably all 100 will manage to swim out alive. Throw them in English Channel and tell them to swim over to France, and most likely all of them will drown.
I get what you say. Blaming oneself for procrastinating (or for anything else) for sure doesn't help. But awareness of the issue is essential. And doing something to address it. Exercise is always a good thing. Naps are good too. Or reading. Or ...
But the most effective thing that I've found is getting some piece of the work done. Maybe just a tiny piece. That puts me on an upward spiral, and so it's easier to get more done. And so on.
>But the most effective thing that I've found is getting some piece of the work done.
Can confirm from personal experience. If you manage to make yourself start working and get at least something done, it is a huge incentive to continue.
Do you think you can attribute the relaxation more to the breathing or stretching component?
I've been doing casual meditation (mostly just mindful breathing) and I wonder if I'd further benefit my mind from Yoga. I already do intense cardio and resistance exercises from other activities.
The stretching to be honest. I used to meditate, but these days I only really do it I can't fall asleep, or need to fast forward my brain getting over some bad experience I've had. For a productivity boost, I'd definitely go with yoga for more 'bang for your buck' per say; I'm probably on the mat for roughly 5-10 mins, a couple of times a day or more (depending on frustration levels!)
Intense exercise is also good, but it gives a different result than Yoga, seeing as you are pushing yourself to the limit. Yoga is more about calming your body, centering yourself, getting the immune system moving and so on.
>...labeling yourself as a procrastinator will just make you even less likely to do the work...
I only started reading this article and it doesn't seem you're talking about what the article is talking about.
Quote from article: “What I’ve found is that while everybody may procrastinate, not everyone is a procrastinator,” says APS Fellow Joseph Ferrari, a professor of psychology at DePaul University."
Edit: After reading the article. It seems hacker_'s advice is what they are advocating for. Emotional regulation. Since procrastinator's have a self-defeating internal voice. Calming oneself could be beneficial but the science is merky.
I can sit an hour trying to solve a problem, then in my frustration I take a jog, and most of the time find the solution within five minutes.
I wonder if we where not self employed, what would the boss say if you suddenly went on a jog or did some yoga!?
Yep this is probably the biggest failing in the modern workplace; expecting employees to be able to sit down all day and be productive. I found in those environments you just end up pretending to be productive a lot of the time.
I'm sorry but you just don't seem do know what you are talking about. I routinely can't do mundane task that would cost me a lot of trouble if I didn't do it, because it upset me. As say in the article, someone just telling me to do it has as much effect as someone telling me to cheer up when I was depressed. I do agree with you that is detrimental to label yourself anything and make it a self-fulfilling prophecy but a lot of what was said in this article resonate with my experience.
I am a remote worker and suffer from chronic procrastination. This is a great article but I believe procrastination is an addiction. At times I feel like a compulsive alcoholic who sneaks off to do fun things all day instead of working. I have procrastinated as a student and my entire career and have always gotten away with it. I've been rewarded with praise of my great work, higher paying positions, and bonuses. I find myself enjoying waiting until the last minute and then using stress to help me succeed. It is a vicious cycle. I want to stop procrastinating but at the same time I like doing it.
I wish research would look into high IQ procrastinators because they'd be an outlier to their data. Since the bad consequences tend to miss high IQ people. But according to the article, researchers wouldn't call that procrastination, since the consequences haven't been experienced. Many of the same stressors are experienced between people who complete tasks (I've been calling them high IQ but could be anyone), last minute, and those that miss their deadlines (proc).
I think your 'issue' is similar to mine. We find ourselves unchallenged. Therefore we wait, to increase the challenge. And when we win, the victory is oh so sweet.
I developed very bad habits as a child. I could screw off, read SF in class, barely study, and still be the best in science. But then I went to university with others like me, and it was a rude awakening ;)
Math and physics majors totally kicked my ass. But at least I was still near the top in chemistry :) And I discovered that engineering math and coding made a lot more sense than, for example, number theory.
I think this applies to many with a certain level of intellectual skills: they've been taught through many years of school that procrastination works because they could get away with it.
I didn't think I posted to this thread yet, but this might as well be my comment. Sounds exactly like my experience. It's frustrating to think about what I could be accomplishing, but to everyone else's standards, I'm doing just fine.
TL;DR; The science is merky but researchers have noticed self-forgiveness, seeing tasks as fun (or rewarding), and changing the perspective of procrastinators have been beneficial. Emotions also play a role.
Since many may skim this article here are some highlights with direct excerpts:
- (defining proc) What I’ve found is that while everybody may procrastinate, not everyone is a procrastinator,” says APS Fellow Joseph Ferrari, a professor of psychology at DePaul University.
- (regarding a research social experiment) As it happened, chronic procrastinators only delayed practice on the puzzle when it was described as a cognitive evaluation. When it was described as fun, they behaved no differently from non-procrastinators.
- (proc is self-defeating) In an issue of the Journal of Research in Personality from 2000, Tice and Ferrari concluded that procrastination is really a self-defeating behavior — with procrastinators trying to undermine their own best efforts.
- (defining procrastinators) The idea is that procrastinators calculate the fluctuating utility of certain activities: pleasurable ones have more value early on, and tough tasks become more important as a deadline approaches.
- (link between proc and emotions) “Emotional regulation, to me, is the real story around procrastination, because to the extent that I can deal with my emotions, I can stay on task,” says Pychyl. “When you say task-aversiveness, that’s another word for lack of enjoyment. Those are feeling states — those aren’t states of which [task] has more utility.”
- (on the Neuropsychology) Rabin, the study suggests that procrastination might be an “expression of subtle executive dysfunction” in people who are otherwise neuropsychologically healthy.
- (Solutions?) Sirois believes the best way to eliminate the need for short-term mood fixes is to find something positive or worthwhile about the task itself.
- (Solutions?) Ferrari...would like to see a general cultural shift from punishing lateness to rewarding the early bird.
- (Solutions?) But while the tough love approach might work for couples [references to not doing a spouse's stack of dishes], the best personal remedy for procrastination might actually be self-forgiveness.
- (Solutions?) The research team, led by Michael Wohl, reported in a 2010 issue of Personality and Individual Differences that students who forgave themselves after procrastinating on the first exam were less likely to delay studying for the second one.
> The idea is that procrastinators calculate the fluctuating utility of certain activities: pleasurable ones have more value early on, and tough tasks become more important as a deadline approaches.
This sounds like a definition (sort of) for rational judgment. When you have a hard task, most of the time it's a good idea to procrastinate it for a while because
a) requirements may change, so that work spent early on could be useless (or even the whole task could turn out to be unnecessary), or
b) you might acquire more knowledge in the meantime which enables you to solve the task more effectively or more efficiently.
The distinction between a procrastinator and a rationalist would then be that the procrastinator also procrastinates tasks for which the outlook of these two things happening is bleak.
Procrastination is a lack of motivation, which itself is a combination of self-interest + self-efficacy (expected probability of success).
I overcame procrastination / lack of motivation when I read this article[1], effectively summarizing the above through a study of the study habits of successful (non-procrastinating) children. Now, when I procrastinate, I ask myself, what is my selfish motivation for completing this, and do I believe I will be successful? If I don't have a self-interest, I create one. If I don't believe I will be successful, I find a way to ensure success or sufficiently increase my confidence in my ability to achieve success.
To be fair, sometimes self-interest merely means bribing myself, like for instance with a new Macbook Pro in exchange for seeing a contract through to completion, or maybe an expensive bottle of whiskey.
The self-efficacy portion is harder, but most of the failure of procrastinators is due to the self-created problem of not having enough time. Fortunately, focusing on increasing self-efficacy leads one to start making progress right away (i.e., not procrastinating).
Have you ever tried increasing your self-efficacy (belief in your potential for success)?
Eh, I have pretty harsh clinical depression, so I only really see horrible conclusions.
but, yeah, I have tried a few things. They only last up to a year before I conclude that it's not worth it.
I sincerely apologize for this post (because I know you are trying to spread positivity & encouragement), but I think I offer a different perspective where these simple changes do not offer much help.
Dude (or dudette) - don't apologize for your post. I've been a lurker/reader here for a long while now, never made a single comment or had an account. Your apology triggered something in me and I couldn't help but to respond.
Your perspective adds value and insight to the conversation. We all learn from eachother..thank you for offering your perspective.
The fact you can try something for a year is a big win. Strategies I come up with to get motivated, focused and implement are usually good for a week at best. Keep on trying!
Then you should look for micro-successes, and build upon them by ensuring they occur more. The goal here is to accumulate a momentum of success that spawns motivation, and avoid measuring success from an absolute perspective (e.g., small victories matter).
Honestly though, it sounds like maybe you're trapped in a lifestyle that may genuinely (rationally) not be worth it for you. The only way to solve it may be to fundamentally alter your lifestyle toward greater self-interest (not the same as selfishness) by pursuing what you actually care more about, or being honest with yourself that you don't care enough about what you're pursuing to succeed (fame for most people falls into this category).
Kind of painful to read such an accurate account of my own psychological failings while currently carrying out such failings (procrastinating by reading this article)
Phew, I feel like the author of this article has been snooping in my diary. (That is, if I didn't procrastinate writing entries in it.) Quotes that really stand out:
> “It really has nothing to do with time-management,” he says. “As I tell people, to tell the chronic procrastinator to just do it would be like saying to a clinically depressed person, cheer up.”
> “The chronic procrastinator, the person who does this as a lifestyle, would rather have other people think that they lack effort than lacking ability,” says Ferrari. “It’s a maladaptive lifestyle.”
> “The future self becomes the beast of burden for procrastination,” says Sirois. “We’re trying to regulate our current mood and thinking our future self will be in a better state. They’ll be better able to handle feelings of insecurity or frustration with the task. That somehow we’ll develop these miraculous coping skills to deal with these emotions that we just can’t deal with right now.”
> But while the tough love approach might work for couples, the best personal remedy for procrastination might actually be self-forgiveness.
I think you know you have an issue when you delay your own current tasks by reading an article about procrastination, fully agree with it, then procrastinate more by posting a comment on HN.
"The idea is that procrastinators comfort themselves in the present with the false belief that they’ll be more emotionally equipped to handle a task in the future." This pretty much sums it up for me, and explains why the time management based approaches haven't helped me all that much.
This article is right on many points. But, I think it does not do justice in characterizing the application of Temporal Motivation Theory (TMT), Expectancy Theory, Cumulative Prospect Theory to procrastination - by Steel and others at various points in time - as "Time management" in one broad stroke.
The behavioral economic school of thought clearly implies -explicitly and indirectly - the role of emotions and moods in procrastination.
Take for instance, in the TMT equation,[1][2] the concept of
- "Value": This is more of how much you see value in that activity, how interesting or engaging that is to "you", how pleasurable it is, How rewarding that activity is, etc., The selection of the activity is heavily influenced by what looks pleasurable and rewarding to you.
- "Impulsiveness": This is similar to the "Emotional regulation" or "self-control" in the psychologists' approach. If you are in a good and/or stable mood, chances are that, you would have more control over your Emotions and thus less distraction.
The "economic theory", apart from the "Temporal" aspect, also stresses on the "impulsive" and "pleasure" components in the equation.
Also, in the analysis, the analysts from the behavioral economic point of view also recommend "to break the activities into smaller chunks", "have conquerable smaller activities with local deadlines" etc., similar to the psychologists' approach.
I think that the psychologists' point of view is well taken, with the "mood control"/"emotional regulation" point being emphasized. But, at the same time, the behavioral economic point view is not only about "Time Management".
> “It’s an existentially relevant problem, because it’s not getting on with life itself,” he says. “You only get a certain number of years. What are you doing?”
> Tice and colleagues reported that students didn’t procrastinate before an intelligence test when primed to believe their mood was fixed. In contrast, when they thought their mood could change (and particularly when they were in a bad mood), they delayed practice until about the final minute. The findings suggested that self-control only succumbs to temptation when present emotions can be improved as a result.
That's very interesting observation. That explains why procrastinators eventually get to things when they hit the rock bottom of tiredness and self loathing.
Just because we made up a word for 'not doing work' doesn't make it real, or a problem. 'chronic procrastination'? Give me a break.
I think the real problem is people don't like doing things that are hard, which work generally is (nothing worth doing is easy after all!), and it's easy to just not do something and not have to suffer through the stress of it, anxiety of it and so on.
If you're still reading, my solution for all this is exercise, specifically Yoga. I have a mat laid out in my house, and when I'm stressed I just do poses, stretching and breathing, and all the 'bad feelings' go away. then I can work in a relaxed state and end up being very productive. A biologist would probably tell you that you release chemicals that combat the stress chemicals and so on, but I just know it works.