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Because panicking when you're being rag-dolled by even smallish waves can kill you, let alone waves of consequence. I don't have the words to describe what it feels like to be pushed to the bottom of the ocean by a wave, then just as you feel like you're running out of air be pushed back down by the next wave, and the next wave. You have no idea which direction is up and which is down, or how long it's been since you stopped breathing. 30 seconds will feel like death if you're not properly trained. Your very large very stiff board will be tumbling with you and could knock you unconscious or split your head open at any time.

My girlfriend got to be a decent surfer (~5 years practice and a former competitive swimmer) but never invested in learning the ocean. In 2018 she went out in a break she didn't know, in conditions above her league. Nothing too big (maybe 5 feet) but strong and relentless. Conclusion: She got sucked into the washing machine during a set and nearly drowned. Had to have the water beaten out of her lungs to restart breathing. Now she has panic attacks just getting into a flat ocean for a swim.

The sea is no joke. I encourage everyone to try surfing, it's a great hobby. But less than 10% of it is riding waves.


"the sea is no joke" trvth I was blessed with "over" sized lungs, and like swimming underwater, and hiking in mountains, so have enjoyed bieng able to do those things with minimal effort. When living in a city, I swam in an olympic size pool, and can go two lengths? (back and forth once+) undewater , but have no idea of how this actualy compares to an average. Got into doing the ?wim hoffman? breathing and like that, but have never noticed any altered conciousness, but that might be because my lungs are so large that I will need to realy realy push it? dont know, but after a car accident I was xrayed, and they were very surprised that the xrays, had to be redone, in two parts, as my lungs dont fit on a standard xray. I sing, and can hold a low note for a long time, and am kind of loud and boomy, unless I am carefull, which is a down side, as it is alarming for people in enclosed spaces. So breath work from the perspective of fine controll and exploring actual true limits, is something that is suddenly, looking like a good idea, for me. consiousness and all that


You should try freediving. 2 length in a 50m pool without weights and fins is way above average. But please take a course first, free diving can be very safe but only if done with a properly trained buddy.


Or just join the foiling community and go 40% wave riding. 80+% if pure down winding. Entree is a little more expensive but you save on not having to travel exotic locations (or not at all).


The one time I see surfing mentioned on HN and of course HN squeezes out the most nerdy take on surfing possible


Literally why I'm here


Everyone else in the water will hate you though. Everyone. Even the sea janitors are above you in social standing.


I think you have got your emotions mixed up, what you mean is called being jealous :)

No, obviously, I understand the hate towards those foiling in a crowed point breaks. But, at least in my circle, most of it happens in places where nobody's surfing anyways. Downwinding is pretty much invisible. Surfing has fallen victim of its own success with overcrowded spots (people intentionally breaking each others surfboards, come on) and the necessary travelling isn't great for the planet either (nor is a carbon foil, obviously)


Not op, just an observation, when you are underwater e.g. diving these things are really loud. Of course jet skis etc are even worse but the latter is not permitted were I go diving. Maybe that's part of the resentment.


Interesting but makes sense, TIL


Why?


Nothin personnel


Not the most convincing advertisement


Surfers try to scare away would-be-surfers. Less waves for thee, more waves for me. I don't even have a girlfriend.


THAT’s where I knew to not believe you!


Just a different type of fun. I find avalanche training to have a similar effect for backcountry.

For some it's sobering, for others it's terrifying.


Yes my wife and I were watching a group of hikers one time and we both looked at each other and talked about how none of them had even seen a demo on using an ice axe. It felt like walking into a kitchen and seeing the chefs juggling knives


Yep, and sadly it's a typical story in the backcountry, sometimes ending tragically.


At the end of my three full day avalanche training the instructor said “now remember, you are now the least qualified people to go into the backcountry.

That stuck with me.


That's a great line!


He's using an anecdote. So, yeah, not a study.

The only point being made is panicked breathing before disaster, versus a little training and a few controlled breaths before disaster. And that he also experienced maybe some of the same mind altering effects of breathing.

Since we all breath, I think in this type of thread we'll find lots of anecdotes around this subject.


I find it highly motivating


Obviously, but the 'obesogenic memory' that this article is about is a real problem. Calories don't manifest out of thin air but for a plethora of reasons they're much much easier to overconsume as a formerly fat person.


Over consuming calories is always easy for everyone. Sugar and fat instead of vegetables.


Inevitably, that way of setting up an organization leads to one of two end-games:

1-A wealthy ruling class who can afford and feels entitled to be the government. See: the British Empire.

2-A wealthy ruling class who can afford to postpone profits while they accumulate power, to eventually trade that power for profit through grift. See: western democracy.

Pay people as well as possible for their work and ruthlessly go after theft, corruption and incompetence. That’s how you build a lastingly successful system. Shades of Singapore.


Re: 1. Cause and effect are backward. Imperial service was actually more meritocratic than the domestic British government of that time. Look how many names of colonialists are Scottish or Irish. The former were tossed out of their land during the Highland clearances or lost influence when the Union shifted power to London. The latter were barred from high office due to their Catholic religion. But if you had talent and ambition you could go to Africa or India (and then become wealthy and ultimately join the ruling class)


Fair, I won't pretend to know much about the British empire. But feels like a decent strawman for my argument.


Singapore has been independent since 1959, while the USA got its own in 1776, and Britain has been around for more than a thousand years.

I don't think we can, yet, call Singapore a lastingly successful system, considering most of the time since its independence has been under a father or his son.


Fair, I won't pretend to know much about Singapore. But feels like a better way to set things up than what came before.


I came across this idea after a dark period of meditation: creativity is the productive use of rumination, anxiety or mania. The best creators I know (offhand example, Heston Blumenthal) had rampant mental illness during their most creative periods. I myself suffer from clinical anxiety periodically, which I have to manage proactively.

It’s very sobering to realize you have to take the bad with the good, and sometimes it’s not worth it. Being average isn’t so bad.


Yeah that's my logic too. "It's full moon again... better make the most of it!"


Some very important things get better because of the mass market and investor dollars. iPhone/Macbook are the canonical example.

The hard bit is to keep taste and discipline at the forefront of design. To not let short-term thinking pollute long-term ambitions. Easier said than done.


I think there is a split here because the enthusiast for iPhone/Macbook is a distinctly different breed than the enthusiast for cell phones/laptop computers.

I think Apple (very intelligently) made products where the average consumer is the enthusiast. Which is very hard to do when your company is a bunch of engineers.


If I remember clearly, Apple's hiring process low-key also looked for "good taste" and "product sense" even for pure engineers. Subtly different than anywhere else I interviewed. It's really hard to measure and quantify good taste and an intuitive feel for what's great, which is why most companies don't bother trying. "Just make number go up" is the norm.


Hear hear


I'm sorry to disagree but I want to play games that engage my flow state: Fast, skill-based, noisy, full of acceleration and explosions. Realism has nothing to do with it.


It’s terrifying to think of a state owning an army that can’t disobey unethical or illegal orders from its commanders. That possibility should keep you awake at night.


You make a good point but I think adding QALYs to this discussion is unnecessary complication, for one reason: like most public health menaces, pollution will impact lifespan and healthspan proportionatly, ie you’ll die sooner and also live worse years if you’re exposed. There is a proportionately better chance of ageing well and dieing later if you avoid it.

QALYs really shine when measuring a one-off risk, such as an operation or cancer treatment that might add lifespan but decrease healthspan. If QALY data exists for pollution that’s great, but I think we can easily extrapolate the impact in healthspan from the toll in lifespan.


Former founder now small-time entrepreneur and this resonates with me. I know what I’m capable of when I turn on the switch but I also know the sacrifices it entails. Not willing to go into that mode so someone else can profit in my behalf.


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