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Yes, it is legal. As per the event page: The promotion is not an offer to buy or sell securities, nor are the certificates sold in the promotion securities.

Once your purchase is confirmed, we'll send you information via email on how to fulfill your purchase and your certificate. The certificate is redeemable either for securities through a broker-dealer for those who setup an account, or else for merchandise.

All of the proceeds from our Early Is Everything Pre-IPO Pricing Event are being donated to MissionBit, a Bay Area nonprofit that sponsors underprivileged high school students in the San Francisco Bay Area to learn computer development skills.


We're running a promotional event called the Early Is Everything Pre-IPO Pricing Event this Thursday (7/28) and next (8/4) to celebrate the launch of our new trading platform.

We'll be giving over 100 people the opportunity to get in early on Facebook ($4.54) and Tesla ($2.97).

As per the Event FAQ on the linked site, we're taking a loss on every certificate to prove a point — that when it comes to investing in the most successful companies in the world, early is everything.

The "Early is Everything" promotion offers eligible participants the opportunity to purchase a certificate at the pre-IPO price of either Facebook or Tesla Motors, redeemable for securities through a registered broker-dealer, or for merchandise, at the current price of these companies as of July 13, 2016. Offer good while supplies last. Other terms and restrictions apply, please see event page for full details. See: https://early.equidateinc.com/


to make explict, does each person get 1 share? so about 110 profit facebook and then 225 profit for tesla. As you can see from my profile i don't comment a lot here, but felt compelled as i personally was put off by the spammy nature.

YMMV.

Just friendly advice and also caution to others I guess. For a site that talks about having institutional investors and having one of the top legal firms in the world this mlm and internet riches type vibe is what I got. Again, you guys may be great, but this is very unprofessional / gimmicky in my opinion


The goal of the campaign is to drive awareness among individual investors and employees, and we're doing so by contrasting the opportunities of today with opportunities in successful companies of the past. We've gotten a great response so far, but thanks for your candid feedback.

Each person is limited to one certificate. The certificate is redeemable either for securities (i.e. a share of Facebook at its closing price as of July 13, 2016) through a broker-dealer for those who setup an account, or else for merchandise. It's structured like this specifically to ensure that we're compliant with relevant regulation.


Hi there, co-founder of Equidate here, happy to answer any questions you have.

We're well aware of Sandhill Exchange — they were akin to a prediction market — we're a market where employees and investors who own shares are able to get liquidity, and accredited investors are able to invest.

We've worked with our primary outside counsel, Lowenstein Sandler (an internationally-prominent securities law firm), to ensure our compliance with all regulation. As the article mentions, we've discussed Equidate with regulators since 2014, and this past January FINRA approved our purchase of a broker-dealer.

Finally, we've gone above and beyond to make sure our customers are protected. We have an exclusive underwriting agreement and insurance policy with Munich Re, the world's largest reinsurance company, to protect our investors from fraud.

It's very rare for a startup our size to have a full-time Chief Legal Officer & Chief Compliance Officer, and it's a testament to our efforts to get this right.


Hey, I have some questions as a potential seller. I signed up and added some details about the options I have from my employer. There is a general lack of info about what I can do on the site. The "sell" action has some scary language that makes it sound like I need to immediately commit to selling a specific number of shares at a specific price before getting any more information. Would I need to pay any fees? Does demand exist for my shares, and at what price? Do I need to exercise my options before listing my shares? Is there any way I can find this information out before my shares vest? Do I need to actually sell my shares, which might alert my employer, or is it some kind of arrangement that gets around that? This might affect my decision for how long to stay with my employer.

I don't mean these questions to be critical, if this service works it could turn a source of frustrating uncertainty into cash.


Hey! All very fair questions, thanks for pointing them out. We've tried to make our FAQ as comprehensive as possible, and it has answers for all of your questions: https://faq.equidateinc.com/

Feel free to reach out to info@equidateinc.com if you have questions that are specific to you and we'd be happy to help!


I think my mistake was making an account without looking at the FAQ first. I don't see any way to get to it from the logged-in UI.


Can you explain in plain English what 'insider' information you publish and how you allow trading in private companies when this clearly is not possible elsewhere. And if it is possible why don't these companies just IPO.


Sure thing. We share information about companies' stock prices, share counts, and valuations — data that has historically unavailable, inaccurate, and/or very expensive (tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars per year). We show you real-time news about these companies, and let you track the value of your portfolio if you're an investor or employee.

We've built tools to use this data: https://equidateinc.com/browse Without even signing up, you can answer questions like: "Show me Series B/C companies that have raised $10-100M, have a valuation of $100M-$1B, have less than 200 employees, with a B2B business model in the Transportation industry." We think that's awesome — whether you're an investor looking for investment opportunities, an employee looking for a new job, or a just doing research on companies, it can be incredibly powerful for the entire ecosystem to have access to this data and the tools to use it.

Companies don't IPO for a variety of reasons. Going public is a source of financing for companies — in recent years, with hedge funds and private equity firms participating in Series B/C/Ds++, there is a lot more capital available in the private market. New regulation has made it far more expensive to go public and to stay public. Going public is arduous on the company from the perspective of the time and attention it takes from management. And finally, once a company is public, they are subject to the whims of the market and have to answer to new investors who have a short-term focus on quarter-to-quarter earnings, often at the cost of not being able to have full autonomy to execute on their long-term vision.


It's possible to trade in private companies. I've done it. What you need is a willing seller and a willing buyer.

Finding a willing other party is the trick, in part because a lack of information makes people wary of trading. So this company provides a little more information and a matchmaking registry.


My feeling is that you'd do extremely well if you focus on employee liquidity. I don't think that's your focus or overall vision but a well working and trustworthy place were employees can sell their options hassle free and not get slapped around with all sorts of taxes and fees seems to be missing. That market might get invalidated eventually if startups change their option strategies (YC provides good advice) but it seems like a great initial launching spot to grab some early adopters.


Given the nature of secondary transactions, many people don't want to talk publicly about their experience. That said, if you're interested in working with us, I can make introductions to a couple shareholders or investors that have worked with us in the past (and have agreed to share their story).

I'm also always happy to chat and answer any of your questions. Feel free to email me: sohail at equidateinc dot com


I'm the CEO of Equidate, one of the companies profiled in this article.

The article raises excellent points on the pitfalls of trading pre-IPO stock on secondary markets. The opportunity is risky to be sure, only for educated investors as ready and able to lose money as to make money. Information is limited and protections are only as good as the integrity of the participants. That puts a premium on honestly, transparency, and strict adherence to securities regulations.

The American economy is built on liquidity and rapid turn-around of investments: new company founders, investors, even venture capitalists and private equity fund managers got where they are because an early exit allowed them to cash in early gains in order to re-invest in the market. This used to take a few years, but now, due to market changes, they will no longer see a penny until their company goes public after an average 7.5-year wait. More likely, their company will fail despite years of hard work and success, leaving them nothing. Secondary markets are a relief valve for these founders, early angel investors, and current and former employees.

When shares cannot be traded, even the most ambitious and brilliant entrepreneurs are locked in for the better part of a decade, waiting for something to happen. If they have liquidity they can start something new — perhaps a cure to disease, a new media company, or one that launches rocket ships. This liquidity is how many of today’s great companies got their start.

Collectively, we owe it to founders and investors, and the economy, to create reliable secondary markets. That’s why Equidate was founded.


"The opportunity is risky to be sure, only for educated investors as ready and able to lose money as to make money."

That's bullshit. We let poor people gamble and they aren't "ready and able" to lose anything.

The laws around accredited investing are a disgusting example of how the 1% legally entitle themselves to opportunities while excluding the other 99%.


I don't think the gambling analogy works here. You can't invest 5 dollars in a company 1000 times until you have no money left.

Also gambling odds are heavily controlled. Could you imagine a pit boss telling you "Table 5's die have an unfair advantage to land on 7"? Conversely, people raising money tell you exactly why they will succeed and why they are a better choice than some other company. These people can be very convincing as well.

When gambling, bets are easy to understand. You make a static bet before the wheel spins. When investing, size of the pot depends on how well the company was valued when you made that bet. The next players may decide that the company was only worth half what you paid. This isn't something uneducated investors expect.


That analogy isn't about odds. It's about the why.

The reason we don't let 99% of people buy shares of private companies has NOTHING to do with protecting the wealth of the 99%. Nothing. Zero. And to pretend like people with less than a million dollars in liquid assets are "too dumb" or "inexperienced" to purchase something is beyond insulting.

It has everything to do with creating a private market where the 1% can get in early before the price rises as public money flows in. Wouldn't want too many poor people to get in early. Wouldn't want to have to deal with a bidding war against poor people. Better off to just exclude them from the buying process when the price is low and then sell it to them later when everyone wants it.

It's an institutionalized example of a law designed to maintain a plutocracy. It's disgusting.

I never really understood just how stacked the cards were until I tried to buy FB shares on the secondary market one day. I wasn't allowed to. What the fuck? Then I got married and I became an accredited investor over night. I'm like, "Wow. Really? REALLY?!?! This is how it works?" Then I lost my status as the result of a divorce. So a few years ago I was smart and experienced enough to take on that risk. Now I'm not.


> to pretend like people with less than a million dollars in liquid assets are "too dumb" or "inexperienced" to purchase something is beyond insulting.

Really? Because a lot of that group said they "didn't know any better" and were "misled" when it came to bad mortgages during the crunch. Whether you believe them or not, that was their argument and it worked.

There are entire industries based on exploiting people with bad money management skills (payday lenders, rent-to-own, etc). Clearly the population exists.


Yeah, lots of people do claim that. But we still let them do it. High risk, low reward investments are totally cool for everyone. We don't have a problem with the risk portion. It's only when the reward becomes huge that we have a problem.

I don't think most people realize how true the adages are, "the rich keep getting richer," or, "it takes money to make money," really are. People say it, and other people feel it's true, but then they can't point to anything tangible. But there it is. Current SEC regulation basically institutionalizes this.

Here is a financial opportunity that's actually not that complicated, which is no more risky than other available opporutinies, but we have actually made it the law such that, "Only the 1% may do this."


But there's only one law "protecting" them from one specific kind of bad money decision. So I guess we're saying payday lenders are ok for poor people, rent-to-own is ok for poor people, but we must protect them from investing in the next amazon or dropbox at all costs. That's much riskier than the lottery.


1. Mortgage contracts are too complex for a layperson to understand. Often the amount of time people are given to sign them is less than it would take to read the entire contract through just once. 2. Getting a mortgage is an instance where the seller is also the advisor (similar to an auto mechanic or a doctor). 3. Consumers were actively advised to take out mortgages that the seller knew were more expensive than the consumer could afford. 4. If a predatory auto mechanic deliberately advised a customer they needed repairs that they did not, that would be fraud on the part of the mechanic. The same thing applies to predatory lenders.

(There certainly were people who just made bad decisions. But there was also widespread, documented fraud on the part of lenders.)


Nobody really got screwed by misunderstanding small print on page 89 of the mortgage contract. The fraud (faking employment and income levels) was directed at insurers and buyers of those mortgages, not at the recipient.


>Because a lot of that group said they "didn't know any better" and were "misled" when it came to bad mortgages during the crunch.

What else are you going to tell people when you lose half a mil? That sounds a lot better than "Honey, I gambled our financial future trying to get rich in the housing market, and you'll never believe what happened..."


> Wouldn't want too many poor people to get in early.

In reality loosening that restriction would lead to a reverse selection bias, where only extremely unfit companies would approach such investors. Talk to any startup and their preference of funding is ranked roughly this way:

1) Value-add VC

2) Non-value-add VC with big pockets

3) Value-add angel/superangel/seed fund

4) Non-value-add angel/superangel/seed fund

5) Randoms

By removing the gatekeepers we're back to that scene in "Wolf of Wall Street" where random brokers call up some widow in Nebraska to pitch her on some "high tech company about to go big" and forgetting to mention they're getting a 50% commission on this.

Meanwhile someone in the league of Google, Facebook or Uber would not go this route just because they already filled their rounds.

> And to pretend like people with less than a million dollars in liquid assets are "too dumb" or "inexperienced" to purchase something is beyond insulting.

This is less about treating the folks as "dumb" vs "bright" and more about access to proper financial professionals. Accredited investors typically have access to a financial advisor, investment consultant, attorney and a CPA whom they can ask to "look things over". The lower the total assets number, the higher are the chances that no financial advisor is ever involved.


The reason we don't let 99% of people buy shares of private companies has NOTHING to do with protecting the wealth of the 99%. Nothing. Zero.

You seem pretty confident in your hypothesis. Have you gone back and looked at what drove the change in regulations? It's not like these regulations are passed with supporting evidence. The regulation was passed in 1933, right after the crash.

Between protecting investors and "creating a private market for the 1%", I'm thinking the first seems more rational.


We don't protect investors from penny stocks, which are far riskier. We "protect" investors from damn near nothing. There are some limits on day trading and options trading sure, but those start to get lifted at around $25k.

Investing in a private company that's about to go IPO is actually not that risky when compared to multitude of other investment instruments that are available.

The secondary market is private market for the 1%. That's literally what it is. Maybe that's not how it started or how it was originally sold, but that's what it is. And it's now institutionalized and part of the law.

The idea that it's about protection is just absurd. It's absurd. Are you telling me you are glad that the 1% is out there making sure that you can't invest in Facebook for $20/share? Protection? Really?


Right...I wonder how the public would react to those "protections" if they were dropped a bit, but still out of reach for the average person. Let's say $100k in assets, not including your home and property. Now, about 15% of Americans have access to this pool. Do you think the other 85% is going to be happy about this? Right now, the way the regulations are set up, it seems like such a small minority of people have access, that it isn't worth worrying about. But $1M is really just an arbitrary number.


Your argument here seems somewhat reinforce the "private club" theory.


Well, good, because that is what I was going for :) I think most people don't care about the arbitrary wealth limit on these investments because they either 1) don't know it exists, or 2) know it exists, but $1M is such a far off magical number that it's easy to think almost nobody has access to it. If the number was lower, but still high, I think people would see it for what it really is, and be upset that they are prevented by the government from using their money as they see fit, especially as it is the same government which runs the lottery and allows casinos to operate.


The crash was widely construed to be because of the ignorant public essentially betting on the stock market, with resulting instability. Wise, rich investors would invest and leave their money for years at a time.

The resulting rules changes can be revisionist-history interpreted as protecting the 99%. But remember at the time, the gilded age had passed; labor reforms were in place etc (Teddy Roosevelt, 1910s) and laws such as these were under fierce scrutiny for favoritism.

Still, today it does what it does regardless of the initial impetus. And what it does is prevent most people from playing most games.


Comparing the light regulation of the past to the current strict regulation, sure the current regulation is better.

But legally anointing an "accredited investor" class based on their current financial resources clearly advantages the rich over the poor. There are other ways to protect investors without categorically denying opportunities for savvy, non-wealth individuals (and people who are currently wealthy also deserve protection from fraudsters).


I'm not saying an advantage isn't given to the wealthy, I'm just challenging the idea that that was the driver for the regulation.

To be honest, the gov't is kind of stuck here. Let people make their own choices and they blame someone else. "I didn't know the mortgage rate was only a teaser!!"

At least with the credited investor regulations, if they lose money, nobody has sympathy for them.


Seriously, the same people who complain about "accredited investors" being a privilege of the 1% are also going to use the phrase "predatory lenders." So, which is it? Can people be tricked into bad deals or can't they?

I'm pretty sure if anyone could invest in private equity, overnight you'd see a flood of get-rich-quick ventures crop up and you'd see a lot of people lose everything.

I'm not sure if I think the current legal system is fair, but without acknowledging the huge amount of risk involved in changing it any argument against it is hard to take seriously.


You do realize there is a difference betwixt a "lender" and a "predatory lender", right?

Mortgages are sold by people in a dual advisor/salesperson role, just like auto mechanics (and doctors and plumbers...). Non-predatory lenders give people reasonable advice about what kind of mortgage people can afford, just like an honest auto mechanic gives reasonable advice to people on what repairs are necessary and don't suggest unnecessary services or repairs.

Just as sketchy auto mechanics who try to overcharge for repairs or encourage a customer to have entirely unnecessary service or repairs done, predatory lenders knowingly push people to purchase mortgage products that they cannot afford.


Not sure why you're getting downvoted, I think you make a good point.

You can't on one hand hold people who make bad money decisions unaccountable and at the same time say they should have access to all the high risk opportunities.

It has to be one or the other.


No more risk than penny stocks, options or other derivatives. Or existing "get rich quick" schemes.


The new SEC rules that just went into effect should allow this right?


No. In fact, the SEC is trying to raise the limit to $2.5 million now because there are too many millionaires.


Gambling goes beyond table games. Pre-IPO startups are more like the propositions bet on at a sports book or racetrack.

Actually, there are a lot of parallels between a startup and a racehorse. If you evaluate a horse's past performance, trainer, position in the field, etc you can bend the odds. It's still gambling!


"Collectively, we owe it to founders and investors, and the economy, to create reliable secondary markets. That’s why Equidate was founded."

No we don't! There are no reliable secondary markets and there is not going to be one simply because they are based on pure speculation. It exists for one reason only - shareholders of pre-IPO companies don't want to wait years and hence are willing to trade their shares for immediate cash.

Secondary markets are just another way to create derivates. And we all know how unregulated derivates turned out!


Valuing anything illiquid will involve a mix of rational analysis of inherent value and speculation, they can't really be separated. Pre-IPO companies are very illiquid and so could be prone to bubbles, and many knowledgeable people claim they are in a bubble right now. However, claiming that secondary markets are by necessity pure speculation is simply incorrect.

Your last paragraph doesn't make any sense to me. Mostly people sell equity shares on secondary markets. Equity shares are not derivatives. They can also sell stock options, which are derivatives, but are not created when they are sold on a secondary market. It sounds to me like all you know is that the word "derivatives" is scary, so things you don't like must be derivatives.


"It exists for one reason only - shareholders of pre-IPO companies don't want to wait years and hence are willing to trade their shares for immediate cash."

Yes, secondary markets are designed to provide liquidity to shareholders in pre-IPO companies. At the same time, most investors who want access to pre-IPO stocks have no ability to participate. Value creation has increasingly shifted from the public markets toward private markets. Consider eBay, which was valued at $32 million in 1996 and went public with a $1.9 billion valuation in 1998 (a 60x gain), compared to Twitter which went public in 2013 at a $24 billion valuation, a 657x gain from their $35 million valuation in 2007.

Why should those who are extremely wealthy and well connected be the only investors with access to such investments?


Because you cherry-picked the examples and chose not to mention the vast majority of companies who's value went to zero?


Indeed, if one could pick so well, then the public market is a great place and more liquid.


I think you misunderstand what a secondary market and a derivative is. They're orthogonal concepts.

A secondary market is any market where securities are traded not with the company, but with a third party. The big stock exchanges (NYSE, Nasdaq) are primarily secondary markets (only IPOs are primary, and even then, the primary transaction is to underwriters who then resell the stock as a secondary to other investors in the IPO).

A derivative is whether you're selling a real share, or something else based on that share. A derivative can be both primary or secondary. Employee stock options are derivatives, and what Equidate trades is also a derivative. If you sell your stock directly to a buyer in a secondary transaction, then it's not a derivative, and the company usually has the right to intercept the transaction (the right of first refusal).


Blaming derivatives is like citing the automobile for the reckless actions of the drunk driver behind the wheel. Derivatives are not inherently evil, nor is any 1 (longstanding) asset class.


But yet we still allow drinking, but drunk driving is illegal. We don't blame derivatives, we blame the reckless users of derivatives for the damages they caused.


Hi, I know people have sold my company's shares on the secondary market before. Is there a way to find out the selling price?


The best way is to ask them - my experience has been that people tend to be fairly comfortable discussing per share prices.

I used to work at Palantir. If I want to know what my shares are worth, GSV (which is publicly traded) owns Palantir common and preferred shares (as well as shares in several other private companies) and reports a fair market value in their public 10-Q and 10-K filings. This is useful as a baseline sanity check. There are also enough interested buyers that it's feasible to get multiple price quotes.


"If they have liquidity they can start something new — perhaps a cure to disease, a new media company, or one that launches rocket ships."

Just out of interest: do anybody buy this bullshit today? Do you talk like this in public?


>>> Do you talk like this in public?

Honest question: What is wrong with above sentence?


The examples are so ridiculously overhyped, I just can't believe anybody besides religious leaders would talk like that. Considering the persons position within this topic, makes the whole thing even weirder.


BTW, you have a couple typos in your website copy: "All you have do do is list you shares, prove your ownership"


The New York Department of Financial Services is requesting public comments for the BitLicense regulation. The Bitcoin community is requesting a 45 day extension to the public comment period. We feel it's necessary to have the additional time to constructively respond to the proposed rules and regulations.


Definitely, and many deals are based on some kind of personal relationship with the founder. It's funny: over time I've built up better access and relationships, but have no money to invest... So this will have to do for now :)

I'm looking forward to keeping the list updated and looking back in a couple years.


It's not about being a spectator sport. It's about identifying (potentially undervalued) opportunities early. I didn't make this list to speculate, it's where I'd put my money if I had money to invest.


"People who can't own their own sports teams play fantasy sports. People who can't invest in the stock market do virtual trading. Why should I be left out? I decided that I'm going to publish my list of investing picks (that I've kept private up til now), so that in the future I can (and you can) look back and see how I do."


Plenty of people say "oh I called it" after the fact. "I knew it was going to be big."

I wanted to publish my list publicly (esp. given YC W13 Demo Day) so I can publicly see my performance over time. No cheating and calling it after the fact. Trust me, if I had access to money to invest, I'd keep this list to myself and put my money where my mouth is.


Thanks!

That's expected - after all, everyone think's they're above average (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-205_162-57568186/everyone-thinks...), it's the phenomenon known as illusory superiority... "On a scale of one to 10, you probably think you're a seven. And you wouldn't be alone."

(Disclaimer: though granted, I'd hazard a guess that most HN readers are generally above average.)


Metaphorically speaking, the cops around town that "keep people in line" are just like people in life who "make the rules." They're there to enforce social norms; thus people who say "this is just how it is" when faced with a new situation. Point being, not enough people are willing to ask "why?"

Not arguing the technicalities of crossing the street or why laws are made, just noting parallels between a decision that people make unconsciously every single day and its relation to life and the "big picture."


Your metaphor is based on people breaking laws or not. I bet the risk takers are mostly wealthier and whiter than law abiders.


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