They have a list of some ~60,000 merchants, email addresses in the tens of millions, no patents or 'moat', and they're trying to sell a dollar for fifty cents and make a profit. Also, how do you scale when you have 8,000 employees? That's a huge fixed cost. And these aren't huge barriers to entry for your competition--Twitter/Facebook/any website with an audience can basically do this.
I don't see how their model is sustainable and the entire premise of their success seems wrested on Groupon succeeding at things they haven't demonstrated yet.
Also, I see Groupon as a sales company, not a tech company.
Salespeople are marginal costs, not fixed costs, and that is why they do not scale. (Unless those salespeople are converting prospects into long-term renewal sales)
Engineering and design is a fixed cost.
Why is it necessary to "give up your ability to fit in with your own people" to understand another culture? Why would understanding America and Singapore mutually exclusive?
I know people who have lived abroad for a few years and returned--they weren't fundamentally changed or different, same person new life experiences is all.
Simple, Google is worried Groupon theoretically could get a huge share of local advertising like they were with Yelp.
Google isn't infallible, they are mortal. I think most likely they were willing to overpay because they could afford it and are desperate to get into "social".
Also, Groupon is a ponzi scheme because they use new investor money to pay old investors--not because they don't have a moat, which they dont-- no patents, 8000 employees and how do you scale with that many employees, a list of merchants and user emails.
The new investor money was overtly premised on paying old investors. The new investors were buying the risk from the old investors, who had just been asked to turn down $6bn. I think you're oversimplifying a bit.
There are almost zero barriers to entry. Groupon has a list of a few thousand merchants, a few million emails, 8000 employees, and sells a dollar for fifty cents. How can you scale with so many employees and ever be profitable? It's not sustainable at all. They have no patents or any semblance of a defensive moat. Groupon is also declining in the cities it first launched in like Boston. Their future does not look good.
Your comment is spot on except your hyperbolic and unnecessary attack on social security.
Groupon figured out a way to sell a dollar for $.50, and they use money from new investor's to pay the old-- just like a ponzi scheme.
Also what does Groupon have? A few thousand merchants, a few million email addresses, no patent portfolio, no moat so to speak-- and the fact they need 8000 employees mostly dedicated to sales means they can't scale well--ever.
Most likely Groupon has 6 months to a year before the money evaporates. If not then they end up like Avon or Snap-On tools at best.
The difference is... Groupon can never scale well and have great profitability-- they need 8000 employees to do what? They have a list of merchants and a database of emails and what else? As pointed out on another HN thread, Amazon built a moat what has Groupon done?
This is a purely defensive act to keep some company from producing a device that blocks Apple devices, but they can still make one for WebOS/Blackberry/Android/WP7.They're doing it to prevent someone else from producing/selling a similar device.
No, I think they should license it to HTC and all the other Android handset manufacturers, giving them one more bullet point in their long list of features that the iPhone lacks.
There's a patent. That much is (apparently) fact. Everything else is speculation. Is it really worth getting worked up over things that haven't happened and may never happen?
Finally, if this were to come to pass, there's a very easy solution: a filter. You will see cases that cover the lens with an IR filter. Problem solved. Yawn.
| edw: No, I think they should license it to HTC and all the other Android handset manufacturers, given them one more feature bullet point in their long list of features that the iPhone lacks.
What are you talking about? To follow your absurd scenario, you think if Apple gave this bizarre patent away, but none of their others, that the EFF should then turn around and backstab the inventors and license it to their rivals? Yeah that's real classy and makes a whole lot of sense..
Why do so many people see the world in these binaries? Good/evil, black/white, red/blue.
For what it'a worth, my comment ends on a very "Meh, who cares?" note. I don't know where that puts me in the context of your agonizing over our society's depressing descent into Manichaean dichotomies.
P.S. My suggestion was intentionally absurd. I think it's more likely that, like someone else suggested, this patent would be used to prevent people from exploiting such systems.
> Is it really worth getting worked up over things that haven't happened and may never happen?
A guy enters your office with a machine gun. He doesn't fire, but keeps holding it and looking around like he's looking for someone. What do you do? Ask him "how may I help you, sir?"
> there's a very easy solution: a filter. You will see cases that cover the lens with an IR filter.
This works until someone passes legislation prohibiting it.
You really think sheets of visible light transparent but IR opaque plastic are going to be outlawed? Do you think your favorite band is really going to allow such a device to be enabled during one of their shows, thus pissing off their fans? Do you really think some company is going to bring a DMCA circumvention device suit against iPhone case manufacturers?
Are you willing to wager? I'm feeling lucky: I'll bet you $100 that ten years from now you'll be able to real-time stream 3D holographic recordings of the Rolling Stones directly to your Facebook friends.
> You really think sheets of visible light transparent but IR opaque plastic are going to be outlawed?
When you woke up on September 10th 2001, did you imagine you would ever have to take your shoes off to board a plane? Weird things happen and weirder rules get enacted. The tech we build is, sometimes, misused. I even like nuclear bombs - they can be used for good. This recording prevention device cannot.
> Do you think your favorite band is really going to allow such a device to be enabled during one of their shows
I'd have no problem if the Rolling Stones decided to start using recording prevention devices to "protect" their shows. I'll worry when the police starts wearing them on their helmets.
IIRC, HP patented a similar device a couple years back.
> IIRC, HP patented a similar device a couple years back.
It should be noted that The Man hasn't yet mandated compulsory licensing and implementation of this technology on all camera equipment. Then again, I don't know what the Trilateral Commission's been up to recently, so maybe this technology is already in place.
> "This recording prevention device cannot [be used for good]."
You are wrong. Maybe I can have one of these in my bedroom, so people can't take photographs of me while I'm walking around naked or making sweet love. Maybe abortion providers can have them outside their facilities so that people can't take pictures of people coming in for procedures and being publicly humiliated. I can think of all sorts of uses for this device that might be for the better.
Do I ever want to see such technology deployed? No, because I, like you, think the negatives outweigh the positives, but to suggest that the device has no positive use is to betray a lack of imagination.
Do you really want to suggest that atomic weapons have a moral justification while this technology does not?
Steve Jobs at HP on his first gig at age 12, after calling Hewlett-Packard President Bill Hewlett: When I was 12 or 13, I wanted to build something and I needed some parts, so I picked up the phone and called Bill Hewlett—he was listed in the Palo Alto phone book. He answered the phone and he was real nice. He chatted with me for, like, 20 minutes. He didn’t know me at all, but he ended up giving me some parts and he got me a job that summer working at Hewlett- Packard on the line, assembling frequency counters. Assembling may be too strong. I was putting in screws. It didn’t matter; I was in heaven. I remember my first day, expressing my complete enthusiasm and bliss at being at Hewlett-Packard for the summer to my supervisor, a guy named Chris, telling him that my favorite thing in the whole world was electronics. I asked him what his favorite thing to do was and he looked at me and said, “To f*ck!” [Laughs] I learned a lot that summer.
I don't see how their model is sustainable and the entire premise of their success seems wrested on Groupon succeeding at things they haven't demonstrated yet.
Also, I see Groupon as a sales company, not a tech company.