This argument just seems fishy to me. The only way Trump's argument makes sense is if Russia attacked NATO, and they came looking for a hand out, this hasn't happened.

America has benefited massively from NATO. Intelligence, weapons sales, security...

All that was going on is some countries in Europe weren't paying 2% of their GDP towards NATO, but, America has benefited enormously from paying only a small fraction more. America gets to be the controllers of the global reserve currency which basically gives unlimited ability to influence world affairs.

Trump only really started to carry on about this since the invasion of Ukraine as far as I can tell, even then, it's still cost America nothing because Ukraine isn't in NATO. Any money that went to Ukraine has nothing to do with NATO specifically. In my opinion, America gained a LOT of security from The Budapest Memorandum, people argue all the time that you owe Ukraine nothing but is that really true? They're ultra vulnerable after giving up their nukes. Now what?

Did you want Europe to be the global economic and military super power previously? I feel like I'm missing something ?

China also seems to have a sort of exciting world view in my opinion, belt and road, massive renewables investment, EVs, Nuclear. The USA seems like it's going backwards.

I think it will be harder to China to succeed without America, but I don't think it's impossible. Plenty of countries who will trade with them.

Except China IS doing financial engineering on a huge scale, creating the problems the West has. Except, they're not creating those problems over the course of a century or two, but a decade. They've had 2 massive crashes now and are currently having a 2008-style financial crisis.

And, of course, it turns out that the impressive control of the central government of China is worth nothing as soon as it means local politicians get any less money at any point.

The most recent WTF coming out of China: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/08/business/china-stimulus-e...

Strongly agree. Complacency.

"Why do we need allies?"

Reading the younger peoples comments on the JoeRogan sub-reddit is quite validating and inline with your reasoning in my opinion.

I think most young people were lied to but they believe it because as you said, they don't know any better.

Remember when immigration was going to save the west? Not enough kids, we need workers, etc etc.

I'm so sick of the hypocrisy and politics in general.

Everything is a lie, and then when we make progress, like on climate change, someone get elected and smashed it down for another 4 years.

Those in power who decide for mass immigration policies don't live in places that are affected by their decisions, they live in upper class gated communities with prices so high they're unaccessible to average people to move in, their kids don't go to those schools, etc. All luxury beliefs of idealists shielded from the real world.

Basically, it's easy to be charitable with other people's lives and money from your ivory tower.

At least the US got some good policies now but Germany is doubling down on more illegal immigration while ignoring the downsides.

This is why, as a generally pro-immigrant liberal (within reason), I support Greg Abbott busing them to liberal cities.

Bingo.

It has to do with the election results.

Less places to grow food too.

You have to find some good in all things and I think this is the most likely good. Other countries and continents realizing it's time to move on from America and start to stand on their own two feet.

I'm really tired of American being the center of everything, especially after this fiasco. It would be nice if it was a more progressive country for a change.

By progressive I mean, a country who believes in climate change, renewables and nuclear and women's reproductive rights.

If she lost on the economy, it wouldn't have mattered, no one was going to turn it aorund that fast.

a lot of people were advocating for a primary in 2023 and got shouted down by the establishment dems

It's true, it was stupid and as many people have righly said, it was undemocratic.

The other problem now is that, whoever succeeds him instantly gets the same power, it's actually fucking wild.

This is working under the assumption a succession will be like the one's we're typically used to. With this newfound power, that might not be the case. At the expense of sounding like a doomer, I think there is a possibility the next president won't be democratically elected.

It's possible, but I feel the democratic process seems like somewhat of a religion in the USA, and I just can't see him being that influential to be able to kill democracy, the government is quite huge and he has energized a lot of conservatives.

I mean the mid-terms are in 2 years and if the dems (hopefully) learn from this, they have a chance to bring it back somewhat.

Seriously, if you go look at the numbers, which are still being counted, Harris clawed back quite a lot. It really was close in the end, similar to how the polls predicted.

I was in denial about it, but I do think the dems lost their own election, the more I look at it, and listen to people who voted Trump, the more I have to admit, they screwed up in many ways, and we all paid for it. Biden calling his supporters garbage was the nail in the coffin IMO. That comment potentially lost them the election if you go look at how close some of the swing states were.