If something is worth doing it's worth doing. I'm glad for example the people trying to cure various diseases don't have the characteristic that you call humility but I reckon is something else entirely.
"As a nudge in that direction, I've...downweighted the generic subthreads which were rising to the top like bloated balloons and crowding out more interesting discussion (as typically happens in these cases)." - dang, master of HN
"Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.”
Honestly it's sad how people on this website are okay with this Maoist nonsense, considering how brutally they attack trends like censorship and political correctness.
I'm surprised they didn't mention family. The last company I worked for, the daughters of one of the big-wigs were constantly getting promoted, even though they lacked any qualifications and weren't particularly competent with their nominal responsibilities. One had what was essentially a no show job. Their roles and titles became more and more important, and if you were an outside observer not aware of the circumstances, you'd probably conclude that each individual were extremely competent employees. It was almost as if they were using their father's influence in one company to pad their resumes in the event they needed to jump ship. Infuriating. I really think nepotism is something that people don't pay enough to. Just to take the entertainment industry, the number of actors whose parent is a successful actor has been something I can't help but to notice whenever I see a movie.
I mean even this article, look at the bio of one of the people they cite. Ruchika Tulshyan, "founder of the Seattle-based inclusion strategy firm Candour", is the daughter of a shipping and real estate magnate (https://www.thestar.com.my/lifestyle/archive/2012/02/04/pala...). Naturally no one mentions that.
Another thing I'd mention is the politics that comes with employment. Plenty of people get promoted because they are in a political clique, a faction that promotes and protects their own social interests almost always at the expense of the company. Competence doesn't really matter when you're more focused about expanding and preserving your political power rather than some bottom line. Not to mention, managers who are in your faction can easily find ways to skew the benchmarks so that their people come up on top, so that their people are the ones who look like gold stars. Their people will be working on the best assignments or more likely will be in a position where they can claim the credit while the work is being done by others. And while I certainly agree in the aggregate that black people are generally given less breathing space than other people, I have seen too many instances where the reverse is true: especially if they are protected by someone with power, it is nearly impossible to pointedly criticize continuous shoddy work because you do not want people to weaponize accusations of racism against you. It's even worse because those sorts of employees are totally aware of this and have no problem with taking advantage as much as they can.
I've heard people say DC is Hollywood for ugly people. I think its fair to say the workplace is Hollywood for parasitic people. And if I come across as bitter, it is because I totally am. Starting a job in a new company is just "once more into the breach" and if you're lucky you'll manage to get by without too much abuse and if you're unlucky you'll go through a social meat grinder just to make a living. But I'm certain this feeling is shared by the majority of people who get shafted because they couldn't make it in life via their family's connections and wealth or they don't approach their job as a game of Diplomacy first and work a distant second. I think this phenomenon is a lot more complex than "black people and women have it bad", I think it's just a microcosm of how shameless people can be in social groups as a whole. And the people behind this paper, it's not as if they haven't thought of what I'm speaking of. But why bite the hands that feed them?
It's strange to me how any censorship from Facebook is savaged on this site but I rarely see censorship on HackerNews criticized. This website habitually shadowbans people and controversial comments are hidden as if they never existed. The mods here explicitly warn people against rocking the boat, all in the name of "preserving what this site is for". The disparity is very odd to me. In many ways it seems like people are totally fine with censorship, until someone they don't like or agree with is doing the censorship. At the very least Facebook will tell you they are censoring you. Shadowbanning, a prevalent practice on HN, I think is even worse and more abusive, yet it seems the majority of users here don't have an issue with this. Maybe I'm missing something, but from my perspective the hypocrisy is laughable.
Edit: I think people are missing the point. I don't particularly disagree with any of the replies. HN's commentary is pretty superb in part due to censorship and I agree that without a big stick being used open communities turn to trash. My question is though, why are people defending the mods here but when FB tries to do the same thing, we act like FB is some cyber Gestapo out to dominate speech on the web. It boils down to HN good, FB bad; it's shallow and hypocritical. And I maintain that shadowbanning is an abusive practice. If a user's behavior is such that the user can no longer participate, the user ought to know this. Shadowbanning is like internet gaslamping. You are telling the user one thing while the reality of the situation is different. Websites should not be playing these mind games with their users.
Everyone on HN exists in the same space. If you post something, a significant portion of users will see it. Most socials usually only show your content to people who opted into seeing it or otherwise came across it in a non-trivial way. With a click of a button you can auto-hide content you don't like.
A HN account doesn't have much value. Unless commenting on HN is what gives you joy in life, you won't be impacted much if you lose it. Major socials can be a big part of one's identity, the way one communicates with friends, work and businesses. The "value" of your account grows with usage. There's no chat on HN, no follower graphs or whatever. Pretty sure most HNers don't even notice usernames on here.
I do believe any business has the absolute right to censor anything they want. But in case of FB, Twitter etc too much censorship [0] compromises the value proposition. On HN it is the value proposition.
For the record, yes, I do think they're self sabotaging and will eventually pay the price. I'm guessing the demise will look much more like IBM rather than Myspace.
[0] For example, it makes perfect sense to ban people who actively harass others. Most users don't want to deal with too much nastiness, it reduces the value of your platform.
Maybe you've never had to deal with determined trolls?
I won't say HN is perfect and there are no false positives, but they are doing pretty well considering being out numbered a thousand to one. Most of the time I investigate a dead or banned individual, I think, yep makes sense. While it's felt a bit heavy-handed at times, I haven't found a place with better discussion on average.
> This website habitually shadowbans people and controversial comments are hidden as if they never existed.
First off, enable showdead to see the shadowbanned users. I vouch for their posts sometimes, because sometimes they're good posts. But a great deal of them aren't really here to be a part of the conversation. It's not censorship, it's curation, and I think HN is better for it. Want trolls? Hit up 4chan or something.
It's extremely rad that you can trace your ancestry back 1000 years. I guess I don't have much else to add besides that, but I'm someone whose knowledge of their ancestry stops 2 generations up so I'm kind of in awe by that fact. 1000 years!
The trick is that we all have thousands of ancestors, and if you luck upon one thread that connects you to the aristocracy, their genealogical records are more complete than common people. That's why, after a few generations, people only know the really fancy people they're descended from.
Modi reminds me a lot of Tayyip Erdogan. Erdogan famously said democracy is like a train in that you get off once you've arrived at your destination. I see similar impulses from Modi and the BJP. I can very easily see Modi talking about how mandirs and shikharas are barracks and helmets. India is headed down a dangerous path and his perversion of Hinduism will not end well.
The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government. The current ruling government has undertaken fundamental reforms that _all_ political parties have had in their manifestos but nobody has had the political will to execute on it. In fact in the past 7 years there hasn't been an single legitimate instance of corruption or scandal. If this is the dangerous path, please sign me up for more.
Your point is exactly the things a lot of my Hindu friends say. Freedom and prosperity are two different things. China has/had a booming economy but look at the way they are treating Muslims or dissent.
Yes, for mainstream Hindu nationalists, this is a great time, the government is fully for them. But with all due respect spare a thought for the minorities, journalists and even comedians who are sent to jail for no reason. What about CAA etc.?
There has been demand for hindus to manage their own temples. This been a right winged party has done nothing on it for last 5 years. Not even in states they are ruling.
As for comedians there should be demand to remove the blasphemy laws. That would stop those hurting religious cases.
That is the danger china posted to the world. Totalitarian pays. Let us have more of it. Suppressed minority right is ok. Let us do more of it. With the largest two or 1/2 humanity ... whatever we think about human rights will be overtaken by this crazy reality. Power is might. Prosperity is what counts.
Sigh. And the top judge is either a joke as in china or ask the rapist to continue raping the kids he raped (by marrying her).
It's interesting and disappointing that the CAA is bought up all the time on India related threads in HN for being something that is anti-minority, but explicitly helps persecuted minorities in neighborhood countries, like these Sikhs that faced terror attacks in Afghanistan [1].
Isn't supporting persecuted minorities with no other homeland than India something that the government of India should do? Israel does it by giving citizenship to all persecuted incoming Jews and there seem to be no complains about that so not sure why India is demonized for doing the same.
Also, most of the mentions of CAA never explain exactly what is discriminatory in the law[2]. It only accelerates the citizenship process for religions that originate in India. Not sure what is discriminatory about that?
Your question contains your answer - "It only accelerates the citizenship process for religions that originate in India. Not sure what is discriminatory about that?"
You pick and choose which religions get an "accelerated" citizenship process (whatever that means). Also India has millions of muslims (or christians) whom you can deny citizenship because it is a "foreign" religion :)
The CAA and NRC are designed to work together to strip citizenship from Indian muslims who do not have documents to comprehensively prove citizenship.
The NRC is terrible but not overtly discriminatory on religious grounds. The CAA essentially protects people from the NRC, but does so in a blatantly discriminatory manner.
How it works: You might have a passport or driving license or Aadhaar, but none of these prove you are a citizen; you need a document issued before the 1970 wave of immigration from Bangladesh, and if you are younger than that you need to prove an ancestor's citizenship using such a document and then prove your descent from that person using birth certificates.
Needles to say, many people (of all religions) would not be able to do that.
This is where the CAA comes in, saying people in the country illegally have a fast-track to citizenship if they happen to be from a list of 'persecuted minorities' in neighboring countries. The list excludes persecuted muslim groups, most conspicuously the Rohingya of Myanmar who face the most horrifying persecution.
Sidenote: while I said the NRC isn't discriminatory in it's framing, it was in practice in Assam, the only state where it has been enforced. Officers have broad discretion over choosing whom to challenge (to prove citizenship), and some were caught admitting they challenged people based on how hey dressed and in what neighborhood they lived.
Personal observation, but then you would say that's an anecdote. However if you are familiar with how governance works in India this will not be surprising to you at all.
The moment it is required that an official needs to sign off on something, that power will be used to extract money first and political favors next.
The recent love jihad laws that require a sign off from the administration attesting that no harm has been done in s case of mixed faith marriage, is not the first of its kind. A couple of months ago a marriage registrar and local police asked for a hefty bribe from two of my acquaintances who were getting married to each other - all because they are from different religion and that requires a sign off from local admin. This is a known practice and the corruption money finds it way up to high places. It is a politically sanctioned corruption.
Speculating now --
The recent spate of cow slaughter lynching is less about protecting cows ft slaughter houses but note about using the political system to grab protection money from Muslims - give me money and continue as usual or get lynched even if its buff meat that you are selling/transporting
I would recommend you to read this FAQ[1]. It answers all you points.
> Also India has millions of muslims (or christians) whom you can deny citizenship because it is a "foreign" religion :)
This is blatantly false. The CAA only applies to new immigrants that apply for citizenship. No where in the CAA law it is mentioned that existing citizens can be stripped of their citizenship due to their religion or any other reason.
This is not twitter or reddit. Please stop spreading lies, FUD and conjecture here.
where did you get the "deny citizenship to muslims" from ? they are still part of the process and will take the same time they do today .. nothing changes for them.. which is the cases for hindus/sikh/jains/muslims/chrstn from any other country apart from these 3 bordering india ..
"The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government." -> Do you have any proof for this? I have been for greater part of the 1st Modi regime. It was mostly a shitshow with Demonetisation.
If you know about the history of fascism it has always had a base in a certain section of the middle class of a country aligned with some elites (as opposed to one rooted in the working class).
Talking about middle class incomes is a total red herring. These are fairly typical diversionary tactics, to move the conversation from an uncomfortable topic such as fascism and human rights violations to more mundane discussions about economic metrics.
If you have been in a couple of these discussions you will learn to avoid these diversionary traps :)
>> The Indian middle class has never been more prosperous under any other government
Have you looked at the interest rates ? The government is crushing the very same middle class savers/pensioners who have supported them ardently. And the funny thing is they still continue to do so.
This is another way of saying that India does not have a negative GDP growth rate (covid19 excepted).
Independent India has actually never had a negative growth rate ever, until 2020.
This also ignores 3 fundamental facts
1. The middle class of India is a minority. The majority of India is lower class.
2. The growth rate has been declining ever since Modi has assumed power.
3. The current discussion is about fascism, suspension of habeas corpud, human rights violations and the usurpation of power from independent branches like the judiciary, election commission, enforcement directorate etc. -
not the middle class income profile.
Can you please cite with examples of growth in the past 7 years with comparison to the previous govt?
This govt has been a failure in an astounding scale and the numbers confirm them. I'm not getting what you mean by "never been more prosperous"
I certainly would have done the same, but there is a certain level of disdain I have toward these people with their faux outrage that is manufactured solely to maneuver themselves into a position where they can grab more benefit. This person, when Google jerked him around, made a big deal about how bridges had been permanently burned, how he would never do business with Google because of how Google treated their customers. But now, not even a month later, it turns out all that talk was pure BS. Now that they got what was theirs, they are more than happy to do business with the company they supposedly would never do business with again. How can we expect Google to reform for the better when every single person who could remotely put pressure on Google to change their habits folds when money is dangled in front of them? How can we be angry at the pimps when we live in a society where everyone dreams of being a whore, even when they don't have to be? The Terraria people certainly have the financial means to excise Google yet they chose not to. What is the point of having fuck you money if you are too spineless to ever say fuck you? We live in a society where we expect more dignity from minimum wage employees with no power than we do from the people who have the means to say no. This rot pervades every level and institution in our society and I am terrified of the consequences at the end of the ride.
God forgive me for defending Facebook, but doesn't it seem like a government totally controlled by the Murdoch empire is essentially shaking down Facebook? If Facebook can't reach an agreement with the media companies, aren't they totally within their rights to do as they did? I am confused how FB is the one doing the bullying in this scenario. It almost seems like Australia is employing tactics more recognizable to Mafia goons than a democratic government.
I feel like efforts like this is just a hamfisted example of preaching to the choir, a feel good bandaid for liberal worshippers at best. I don't see this affecting the minds of people who think a picture of Mohammad is cause to behead people. At the very least, the government should not be spending 30 million Euro on this. It seems more like extortion mixed with appeasement than anything else: please radical Muslims, can't you see your religion is just as respected in our secular society as any of the other religions? Please stop your random acts of heinous violence. Generally speaking, it seems for the most part Jews and Christians are able to worship separately without the threat of violence, without the help of the state. Why is it that only for Islam does society need to go out of its way to show its adherents that hey, we are people that don't deserve to be murdered in cold blood, come worship next to us and we will demonstrate we are just as worthy of life as you? Imagine there was a spate of violence against Muslims in Saudi Arabia or any Muslim majority nation committed by Jews or Christians. Do you think for a second the government there would sponsor a similar building? Why is it so difficult for European nations to draw a line in the sand and say, regardless of your religion, culture, or ethnic background, if you go around lopping off heads because you feel insulted the state will crush you. I feel like Western civilization coddles Muslims in part because they are afraid of being accused of racism but as some point we will need to acknowledge that people who get offended and start waving around scimitars need to be excised from civilized society, not have money wasted on pointless assimilation programs that don't seem to be needed for any other culture except the Islamic ones.
Because its the same thing as a person setting your house on fire then advising you not to breathe in the smoke. Advice like telling people we are drowning in plastic because we don't recycle, telling people with no access to public transportation to minimize the use of cars, telling people with no access to healthcare to take care of their bodies, telling people that grew up in a glorified prison they call public schools to get more education. They flood the world with plastic to the point where people effectively have no other option than use plastic then tell people to not use plastic. It's funny how if people say the solution to income inequality is to execute billionaires we would never seriously entertain that thought, we would immediately know that is an absurd solution, yet when people say guys choose not to use plastic we stop and consider it as if it is a viable solution for ordinary people and not callously asinine advise. It is no wonder there is so much rage in the Western world when the elites present such ridiculous solutions to problems they themselves brought into existence and expect us to act like they are priests endowed with God's personal blessing.
It's all about survival. Humans are animals not much different than a deer, lion or whatever. A deer will run away from something it doesn't know where a lion will attack/kill anything it doesn't know. Just like the stereotypical "git off my land" character of a country bumpkin. I mean, how do you feel when you see a stranger walking on your property? Same thing.
I always laugh when people say they feel close with nature. Um, hello! You ARE nature. The human brain just overlaid a thick layer of self awareness/logic/reasoning/emotion to the lower level animal bits. So instead of pissing on trees we instead draw lines on paper called borders and property lines. And we still live in trees, just dead ones turned into boxes called homes.
For thousands of years we struggled like any other animal to survive. If you had food you made sure no one takes it. If you found a safe place to sleep you dint want to share it. If a stranger wanders into your territory, chase or kill them, they are a threat. If you were a male you had to prove your worthiness to a female by fighting or peacocking (some things never change...) etc. Oh and we smell just as bad. The stink of a locker room or unkempt home is no different then the stink of a farm or zoo. You're a smelly hairless great ape. Deal with it.
