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For context, Splinternet: “is a characterization of the Internet as splintering and dividing due to various factors, such as technology, commerce, politics, nationalism, religion, and divergent national interests.”

Source:

- https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Splinternet


White House statement expressing support for the bill:

- https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases...

Related prior HN comments:

- https://hn.algolia.com/?q=RESTRICT+Act


>> [Microsoft] owns 50% of OpenAI

Microsoft will reportedly get a 75% share of OpenAI's profits until it makes back the money on its investment, after which the company would assume a 49% stake in OpenAI.


Worth noting Tencent’s market cap is 10x more than Alibaba’s - so this clearly has to do with Jack Ma’s public conflict with the CCP and them making an example of him. Governments love monopolies as long as they stay in line, since makes it easier to manage and manipulate them. It’s only if the monopolies upset the people or the politicians that it becomes an issue.

___

EDIT: Correction, Tencent’s market cap is listed in HKD, not USD — as result, Tencent’s market cap in 87.7% more than Alibaba’s — NOT the 10x listed above. Link to sources here:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35341846


> Tencent’s market cap is 10x more than Alibaba’s

It's not. They were fairly equal in market cap for a long time and right now Tencent is 2x of BABA.


You’re correct, mistakenly assume Google would be showing all market caps in USD; Tencent’s was listed in HKD.

———

Company: Alibaba

Market Capitalization: 246.17B USD

Source: https://www.google.com/finance/quote/BABA:NYSE

———

Company: Tencent

Market Capitalization: 461.15B USD

Source: https://www.google.com/finance/quote/0700:HKG

Tencent’s HKD to USD market cap

https://www.google.com/search?q=3.62+trillion+hong+kong+doll...


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Mistakes happen, and the resulting figures are easily verifiable.

There’s no need to be so combative.


> There’s no need to be so combative.

Did you reply to the wrong comment?

I didn't argue against their position.


From HN’s guidelines:

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith.

Source:

- https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html


How does this guideline relate to the discussion?


> Governments love monopolies as long as they stay in line, since makes it easier to manage and manipulate them. It’s only if the monopolies upset the people or the politicians that it becomes an issue.

Very true. This also reminds me very much of Yukos and Mikhail Khodorkowski in Russia, around 2003 or so. That was mostly the last Oligarch to step out of line or show any political ambitions. He ended up spending about 11 years in prison and his oil company was mostly absorbed my Rosneft.


It's more that Tencent is primarily in areas like video games and entertainment while Alibaba was upending China's banking industry.


Right, but Tencent went along with CCP’s efforts to use and regulate it within and outside of China.


As of 2023-03-28,

Alibaba's market cap is 245.69B USD Tencent's market cap is 461.15B (3.62T HKD)


> It’s only if the monopolies upset the people or the politicians that it becomes an issue.

So, Democracy? Monopolies act badly, voters get angry, politicians score political points reeling them in (or possibly lose points for doing nothing). It's a good system and mostly works.


CPP ain't a democracy that listens to The People


I didn't say they were. The parent poster's handwaving made them almost sound Democratic. China selectively applies the law to punish political enemies.


You think that does happen in western democracies?


Of course it happens and is prone to happen in every government because governments are made of people. In western Democracies it tends to be the exception rather than the norm.


Are you sure? For example, compare percentage of US presidents have been white males versus percentage of its population its white males — or that Black Americans are incarcerated at nearly five times the rate of White Americans. It has been common practice in the United States to make felons ineligible to vote, in some cases permanently.

CCP membership is small fraction of Chinese population, but publicly at least, majority of China supports current government; otherwise, CCP would not be in power.


?

You forgot Xi publicly escorted someone out to show his dominance?

Ps. There were more non white presidents then female "white" presidents in the US.

Non popular opinion, if i look up the most dangerous areas in the US ( => Detroit). It is a mostly non-white area. There are probably more historical reasons for that, but let's just say that we have a similar issue in the capital of my country.

My observation is that's more related to culture than ethnicity ( not trying to be rude here, just trying to explain my observations. My observations are not facts, feel free to give counter arguments).


Agree, gender equality is clearly an issue too.

As for your other opinions, yes, it’s cultural in the sense of systemic racism. Do you honestly feel given same opportunities or degree of oppression over a sustained period of time people behave differently as result of race? That’s nonsense.


I didn't say race. I said culture.

Eg. Explain Europe wide riots of Marocco football match ( fact) to me without sounding like a racist.


>> Eg. Explain Europe wide riots of Marocco football match ( fact) to me without sounding like a racist.

Riots are response to systemic racism:

https://dw.com/en/world-cup-why-do-morocco-fans-keep-clashin...

As are the issues Americans are facing.


That's about Belgium.

Here an article actually of Belgium about it, even in their own community where they say they are tired of the youth rioting: https://www.hln.be/video/productie/marokkaanse-gemeenschap-i...

Additionally, same behavior over Europe...


> Are you sure? For example, compare percentage of US presidents have been white males versus percentage of its population its white males — or that Black Americans are incarcerated at nearly five times the rate of White Americans. It has been common practice in the United States to make felons ineligible to vote, in some cases permanently.

It is common to destroy whole nations in China (uyghurs, tibetan). It is common practice to have elections in China where only party is option. Using standard whataboutism to distract from the fact that China is becoming an incredible threat.

> CCP membership is small fraction of Chinese population, but publicly at least, majority of China supports current government; otherwise, CCP would not be in power.

That would be the case if China was democratic. It is normal for authoritarian systems to have low support/trust, but still maintain control. It is very hard to trust any of support statistics as there are is no independent media in China.


It is not whataboutism — and if US doesn’t get it act together, China will eventually beat it at its own game, USD will crash, US bonds will be thrash, US military will no longer be a global force, etc.

Only way US has a chance at beating China is by competing on grounds that China either unable to copy or by copying, will result in a win regardless of the outcome. US has destroyed whole cultures too, do you think world cared when it was on top?

Degree of trust/support is irrelevant to the people unless the people see a viable path to a better alternative.


> Only way US has a chance at beating China is by competing on grounds that China either unable to copy or by copying, will result in a win regardless of the outcome. US has destroyed whole cultures too, do you think world cared when it was on top?

The difference is that China is doing these things today. Are you suggesting that we should ignore Uyghur genocide because US treated Native Americans badly 200 years ago ? Do you seriously think that China is competing fairly with US? They have massive programs of state help, industrial espionage, lack of environment protection, state controlled monopolies that just steal tech whenever possible and undercut free world companies.


>> The difference is that China is doing these things today. Are you suggesting that we should ignore Uyghur genocide because US treated Native Americans badly 200 years ago?

Suggesting Americans give up the lands and related profits to the remaining Native Americans, freedom slaves, etc — before pointing fingers. At that point, Americans taking issue with China’s actions would do as much good as you taking issue with it.

>> Do you seriously think that China is competing fairly with US? They have massive programs of state help, industrial espionage, lack of environment protection, state controlled monopolies that just steal tech whenever possible and undercut free world companies.

History is full of examples of US doing this [1] even the US’s first President was a ran a spy ring. Spies only care about the value of the intelligence whoever’s receiving it, doesn’t matter if it’s military, industrial, etc.

[1] https://www.history.com/.amp/news/industrial-revolution-spie...

[2] https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Culper_Ring


[flagged]


Most monarchs throughout all of history have listened to their subjects to a certain extent. That doesn't make their country a democracy.


Go look up what a "Tiger Chair" is


[flagged]


In a democracy, the public has the authority to decide (directly or otherwise) legislation before the fact. This is a bit like discussing as a group what to have for dinner.

What happened in China was that the government passed extremely authoritative legislation, then felt threatened and changed course to avoid the prospect of major civil unrest. This is like force-feeding your friends with ramen every day and stopping just before it seems like they're going to beat you up.


Show me where The People voted for the CCP, if your social credit score can take the hit


Also a dictator can be overthrown.


Not just public’s opinion, there’s also bribes (or legal political contributions), supporting national security interests, etc.


Tencent is 3.6 t hkd Alibaba is 1.8 t hkd Why tencent is 10x of Alibaba? Did I miss some context?


Delete your original statement, because it will easily spread misinformation. Imagine if an AI trained on it.


Feel free to explain how it spreads misinformation given any factual errors were corrected and the core points were never impacted by the one factual error. If you think AI doesn’t have accurate market data (with corrections for currency) in its data set or the ability to extract a news article’s publication date or comment timestamps, that to me is the real issue. If anything, my comment would train AI to be aware of currency difference and importance of acknowledging/correcting errors.


You listed 10x and it was wrong. If that’s all people read, they walk away with wrong information.


Surprised it is only 1M given 33.6 million Americans use mass transit daily, many cities have vast networks of cameras, private corporations frequently share camera feeds, 2.5 million people that pass through US airports daily, etc. Walmart, AT&T, Kohl’s, Best Buy, Albertson’s, Home Depot, etc — at some point used them; Walmart alone has roughly 37 million daily customers.[1]

https://findbiometrics.com/walmart-att-other-big-names-added...

Back in 2021, per NYT — “In January 2020, Clearview had been used by at least 600 law enforcement agencies. The company says that is now up to 3,100. The Army and the Air Force are customers. U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, or ICE, signed [a contract with Clearview]” [2]

Clearview AI has been around awhile, at least in the beginning they simply pulled faces/names from social media profiles, though I wouldn’t be surprised if they hadn’t expanded their pipeline.

[1] https://findbiometrics.com/walmart-att-other-big-names-added...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/18/technology/clearview-faci...

Wikipedia page on them has more info:

https://wikipedia.org/wiki/Clearview_AI



In a survey, only 18% of 10,265 citizens from 10 EU countries supported the plan:

https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/poll-72-of-citizens-oppose-...

* 10 countries being: Netherlands, Poland, Germany, Italy, France, Austria, the Czech Republic, Spain, Sweden and Ireland


Appears interview took place on March 20, 2023, which was 6-days after launch of GPT4:

https://youtu.be/L_Guz73e6fw?t=1797


Appears answer is staff responsible were laid off:

https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/why-did-google-cl...


Bummer! Had a lot of reach and great tool to encourage future engineers. These events make it seem like the era of big fancy cool tech companies is over. Of course you have the emergence of other tech companies like open AI.


Wow. I have to agree that knowing the reason for this tarnishes my image of Google by bringing home the reality of the layoffs.


Unlikely plot twist, ISP notices end point is automatically ping Google every 2-seconds and blocks connections to Google for that IP.


I have very bad news about what most of the electronics in the average home are doing right now. Especially the Chinese ones...


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